The strange case of Margaret Fleming

Cases like this intrigue me - how people can disappear and nobody even notices. We don't know if Margaret had any siblings. If she did, didn't they care either, like their mother, to find out if she was okay.

I have known instances where parents have disowned their children but other family members kept in touch.

If her disappearance was only reported a year ago, how come Eddie Cairney and Avril Jones hadn`t included her on the register of electors since 2003 ?

http://www.192.com/atoz/people/cairney/edward/

It looks as if they slipped up there - she should have been on the Electoral Register to go along with the pretence that she lived with them.

I'm still baffled as to how disablement benefits were claimed for years without her ever seeing a doctor.

What a sad case! Not entirely surprised that they've been charged but so sad that someone can just go off the radar, unless it's voluntary.

Two carers to stand trial,no body it would seem.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5779351/Two-carers-abducted-murdered-woman-claiming-benefits-pretending-alive.html

Two carers 'abducted and murdered a vulnerable woman who has not been seen for 18 years before claiming £182,000 in benefits by pretending she was still alive'

It is alleged that they disposed of, destroyed or concealed the remains and personal effects of Ms Fleming between December 18 1999 and October 26 2017.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-44281523

I wonder what proof there is of these claims?

The charges include claims that Ms Fleming was locked in a room and held captive against her will, with her arms and wrists bound with tape, from November 1997 until January 2000.

I missed this update at the time.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-45904936

Plus an earlier report before the case collapsed. How could Margaret's mother have left her with this couple and, after that initial visit, done absolutely nothing to contact her?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-45731650

I was just thinking about this case the other day for some reason.

Couple guilty of murdering woman whose body is still missing

https://news.sky.com/story/couple-guilty-of-murdering-woman-whose-body-is-still-missing-11741786?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

A couple have been convicted of murdering a vulnerable woman whose body has never been found.

One of them also claimed almost £200,000 in benefits by claiming the victim - Margaret Fleming - was still alive.

Ms Fleming, who had learning difficulties and was described at the High Court in Glasgow as "friendless and lonely", disappeared around December 1999. She would now be in her late 30s.

Her supposed carers Edward Cairney, 77, and Avril Jones, 59, were found guilty of murdering her by unknown means between 18 December 1999 and 5 January 2000 at their home in Inverkip, Inverclyde, or elsewhere in Scotland.

They "literally got away with murder for 16 years", the Crown said.

Jones was also convicted unanimously of fraudulently claiming £182,000 in benefits.


A police investigation did not begin until it became clear - in October 2016 - that Ms Fleming was missing, after routine social services inquires apparently sparked concern.

Thank you. I didn't know that there was another trial after the first one collapsed. There are more details here. Did the couple admit to what they had done? There seems to be no evidence if they didn't.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/inside-utterly-disgusting-margaret-fleming-16517648

Freedom wrote:Thank you. I didn't know that there was another trial after the first one collapsed. There are more details here. Did the couple admit to what they had done? There seems to be no evidence if they didn't.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/inside-utterly-disgusting-margaret-fleming-16517648

They pled not quilty but given there was no body they must have been convicted on the basis of circumstantial evidence.
They did give a BBC interview saying that the victim phoned them on a regular basis .
Big mistake given that such a claim could be easily disproved .
The facts are not out yet but local reports suggest Cairney was a diver.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48635838

I'm sure that the couple did kill her but how anyone can describe how she was treated when there were no witnesses who saw her I don't know.

The sentencing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-49014751

There's a two part programme about the case on BBC2 on Wednesday and Thursday next week at 21.00.

I don't have a TV now and can't watch it on the i-player without a licence so if, anyone watches it, could you review it please.

Freedom wrote:There's a two part programme about the case on BBC2 on Wednesday and Thursday next week at 21.00.

I don't have a TV now and can't watch it on the i-player without a licence so if, anyone watches it, could you review it please.

What a sad story and how scandalous that this horrible pair got away with this vulnerable young girl's murder for so long. They were hardly convincing in the interview in 2017. It's a shame that the girl's mother - even if the relationship was strained - did not do more to check that she was being looked after properly.

I presume that the police were able to draw certain conclusions about when she died and what had happened prior to her death by examining the house and its contents. Given that the couple were convicted of her murder and then spun a web of lies for years, it's highly unlikely that in the years prior to the murder the poor girl would have been living in any comfort whatsoever at their house. Quite the contrary it would seem.

I'll try and watch the two part programme.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/margaret-fleming-murder-what-happened-after-her-disappearance-and-how-killers-edward-cairney-and-avril-jones-were-caught/ar-BBYJVR3?ocid=spartanntp

Quite honestly, Margaret's family and friends (if she had any) don't deserve anything; they didn't care enough about her to check up on her in years.

"The officer who led the investigation, Det Supt Paul Livingstone, put out a plea for answers in 2019.

"Margaret's family and friends will never know just what happened to her and they have been denied the right to pay their final respects to her at her funeral.

I would say to Cairney and Jones - if you have a scrap of decency you will give the answers to the questions that Margaret's family deserve.

I am willing to meet either of them so that they can tell me in order to provide some kind of comfort to her family and allow them to put her to rest finally."

Watched it last night , despite being as guilty as sin itself I was surprised they were convicted on the evidence presented given the not proven option for the jury in Scotland.
That aggressive female detective would have made mince meat out of Kate McCann , pity she wasn't working in PDL on 3/5/2007.

The evidence is entirely circumstantial as far as I can see - yes, it's possible that they could have been acquitted.

I've just started to watch this. The case has always fascinated me.

I think it must be the same programme I mentioned in 2020.

There was no mention at all of Margaret's mother but she gave evidence at the trial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48123959

The video has gone now but I caught it before then.

I'd not seen all of the interview before with the couple - what can you say to Edward Cairney's reply to the question what was Margaret like - short, fat, dirty - other than WTF?!