Why the Smith Sighting - and not the Last Photo - is the Key to the Madeleine McCann Case - Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

candyfloss wrote:Verdi says Pat Brown dips in and out and only has the files.  One big difference, she is trained and she knows what to look for and how to analyse more than anyone here.  She knows which aspects are important and which are not and she gives her trained opinion.  Yes, she did go to PDL to meet Goncalo and PeterMac - and no doubt got a lot of information. Genuine question - has TB every been, I cannot recall he has, and I wonder why not.  How anyone (TB) can say she is talking rubbish is beyond me.  Strange how suddenly like almost everyone else, she has become persona non grata, one by one everyone gets the treatment   I won't say she is blonde too

He may not have been to PDL.....

U.S. Criminal Profiler Pat Brown in Windsor to discuss the complete mystery of Maddie McCann with Tony Bennett, Madeleine Foundation Secretary - 7 Feb


Posted by Tony Bennett on our forum here
Link

7 February 2012

I was able to meet Pat Brown off her plane at 9.30am and we had till 1.00 to have a good exchange of information and ideas on various aspects of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

I was able to provide her with a detailed briefing on Phase 1 of the McCanns' private investigation, which included:

* the emergence of Brian Kennedy as both benefactor and director of the McCann Team's private investigations

* the emergence of Brian Kennedy's in-house lawyer as the McCanns' co-ordinating lawyer and Director of the 'Find Madeleine Fund'

* Brian Kennedy's purchase of a house in Knutsford as the long-term base for this investigation into Madeleine's disappearance

* Kennedy's choice of controversial Spanish detective agency Metodo 3 as their preferred organisation to search for Madeleine

* Brian Kennedy's meetings with Robert Murat and his lawyer on 13 November 2007 and his meeting earlier that day with Portuguese Police at Portimao Police Station and with boss of Metodo 3, Francisco Marco, and his No. 1 investigator, convicted criminal Antonio Gimenez Raso

* A biography of Antonio Gimenez Raso charting his decline and fall from...Head of the Anti-Drugs and Anti-Trafficking Unit of Catalonia Regional Police...to resigning from them at the end of 2004...to being appointed as a Metodo 3 private investigator in 2005...to being appointed as the leading Metodo 3 private detective investigating Madeleine's disappearance in 2007...to meetings with Brian Kennedy in Morocco...to meeting with strange Madeira lawyer Marcos Aragoa Correia at the Arade Dam on 10 December 2007...to his arrest on charges of corruption in public office and theft, together with a gang of drug-dealers, of £25 million of cocaine from a boat in Barcelona harbour in 2004...to his current 18-year jail sentence.

And I pointed out that after they lost the services of Antonio Gimenez Raso, they turned to the services of...Kevin Halligen!

Pat briefed me on her plans for Portugal. She was in good spirits.

-------

Follow Pat Brown on twitter as she travels to Portugal to search for Madeleine McCann: https://twitter.com/#!/ProfilerPatB



Pat Brown meets Gonçalo Amaral in Portugal

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Posted by Jill Havern - CMOMM at 15:32
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Labels: Criminal Profiler Pat Brown, Gonçalo Amaral, The Madeleine Foundation, Tony Bennett

Jill Havern - CMOMM
PeterMac's FREE e-book: http://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.co.uk/
The McCanns' Abuse of Power: http://gerrymccan-abuseofpower-humanrights.blogspot.co.uk/
Gonçalo Amaral: 'Maddie: The Truth of the Lie': http://goncaloamaraltruthofthelie.blogspot.co.uk/
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@poster. I too think Thursday is manufactured. I'm strongly leaning to death on the Wednesday night, these days. Enough time to get things done on the Thursday, but not enough time for the robust planning and recruitment that the smooth abduction play on the Thursday night would entail. Semi-planned, and easily derailed, which is exactly what happened.

Yes thanks Bampots I have seen the  picture, but that was before she went I believe, but I don't think he met with her after. 

Bampots wrote:

* the emergence of Brian Kennedy as both benefactor and director of the McCann Team's private investigations

I'm now finding Kennedy's involvement one of the most baffling aspects of the case. I can't think of a single way to rationalise it.

[url=https://servimg.com/view/19160630/132]

Look cosy don't they!??

unreorganised wrote:

Bampots wrote:

* the emergence of Brian Kennedy as both benefactor and director of the McCann Team's private investigations

I'm now finding Kennedy's involvement one of the most baffling aspects of the case. I can't think of a single way to rationalise it.

Here's a wild one to think about....it I mad ......but would cover all bases!

Could he work for the secret service? No idea but it certainly helps explain his actions!!

Oh dear a poster over the road is saying we should get our basic facts right, perhaps the other way round methinks.


Mr Smith gave his very first statement to the PJ 0n 6th May, not the 26th May as she states, and  if the person carrying Madeleine knew he had been seen then of course that puts a different light on things does  it not.







On [size=24]6^th May 2007 the Smiths gave the following descriptions:[/size]

The man was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had a normal complexion, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache.

He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes and cannot describe the colour or form of the same.

The child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. It was a child of normal complexion, about a meter in height. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not look at her eyes. As she was asleep and her eyelids were closed. She was wearing light-coloured pajamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any other cover or sheet. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet. The individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing. He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual’s shoulders to the right of the deponent (ie over the man’s left shoulder). He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position.

Mrs Smith confirmed the above and stated

She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.

Members of the family returned to Portimao on 26^th May 2007 and clarified their evidence – which Dr Gonçalo Amaral, who was then leading the PJ’s investigation, considered very important.

On 9^th September 2007, the McCanns returned to the UK and BBC News showed them getting off an Easyjet flight. The Smith family saw the program and, from the way Gerald McCann carried his son with the child’s head over his left shoulder with hands hanging down, recognised him as the person they had seen on the night of 3^rd May 2007. On 30^th January 2008, Mr Smith made a further statement confirming -with 60-80% certainty – that the man he had seen carrying a child on 3^rd May 2007 was Gerald McCann. Mr Smith’s wife corroborated his evidence.

https://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1845-a-disgusting-episode-of-distorted-evidence


[/justify]

GM certainly knew it was an Irish family who had seen him but didn't know that the Smiths had already reported it to the PJ.

Snipped from the diary:

DATE GERRY USED
Day 37 - 11/06/2007
Kate and I had a slightly busier day on the media front than expected. We did a short press interview for the Irish Sunday papers, mainly to thank the Irish for their fantastic level of support. We followed that with one for the British Sundays which is likely to be the last one we do for a while. We talked about our pain of not having having Madeleine for such a long time and for our need to grieve, which occurs mainly in private. We also talked about how after Morocco we will have to spend some time reflecting both emotionally, and also how best the campaign can be taken forward. What we want to ensure is that the campaign has a psoitive effect on finding Madeleine.

After this we headed down to Sagres which is the very most southwestern tip of Portugal. There is a very nice beach and we had lunch with the family.

After returning from the beach we did the Irish version of Crimewatch-‘Crimecall’. There are a lot of Irish tourists in and around Praia da Luz and although the awareness of Madeleine’s disappearance in Ireland is extremely high, we want to ensure that everyone is aware of the appeal and we want the Irish public to come forward with photographs of people who they do not know who were in and around Praia da Luz in the 2 weeks leading up to the 3rd May. The address to upload photographs is: to www.madeleine.ceopupload.com . We have also asked for people to contact their local police if they have seen a man matching the description of the suspect carrying a child seen around the time of Madeleine’s abduction. He is 30-40 years, 1.70-1.80m (5’7”-11”), caucasian and was wearing a dark jacket, beige or mustard coloured trousers with dark shoes. No major news on the investigation front- we still believe it is just a single phone call away.

Apologies for the blue ink, but I think there is a wealth of information in the account below. How can TB get away with claiming the Smiths waited weeks to report their sighting? It is clear from the account below that when the Smiths returned to Portugal several weeks after the alleged abduction they were clarifying evidence they had given earlier.

candyfloss wrote:Oh dear a poster over the road is saying we should get our basic facts right, perhaps the other way round methinks.


Mr Smith gave his very first statement to the PJ 0n 6th May, not the 26th May as she states, and  if the person carrying Madeleine knew he had been seen then of course that puts a different light on things does  it not.

On [size=24]6^th May 2007 the Smiths gave the following descriptions:[/size]

The man was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had a normal complexion, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache.

What is a bit on the thin side? His complexion? Or should there be a full stop and then the comment (he was) a bit on the thin side? Or was something lost in translation - perhaps it should read 'a bit on the light side' (as in complexion?) With regards to hair colour I think it has been noted that GM appears to have dyed his hair darker not long after the alleged abduction. Certainly from photos his hair appears darker than during that week.

He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes and cannot describe the colour or form of the same.

Are there any photos of GM from that week wearing trousers that match that description? I presume this refers to chinos or similar?

The child was female, about four years of age as she was similar to his granddaughter of the same age. It was a child of normal complexion, about a meter in height. The child has blonde medium-hued hair, without being very light. Her skin was very white, typical of a Brit. He did not look at her eyes. As she was asleep and her eyelids were closed. She was wearing light-coloured pajamas. He cannot state with certainty the colour. She was not covered by any other cover or sheet. He cannot confirm whether she was barefoot but in his group, they spoke about the child having no cover on her feet.

That's interesting - presumably it was quite a cool night and you would have expected the child to be wearing socks or slippers?

The individual did not appear to be a tourist. He cannot explain this further. It was simply his perception given the individual's clothing.

I wonder if it was possibly also to do with the man's demeanour or manner? If it is true that the man the Smith's saw was responsible for Madeleine's disappearance then you would expect him to not be exhibiting typical tourist behaviour. He would be moving in a manner that was less relaxed. His demeanour would be more tense, more 'driven' -
a man on a mission. Presumably with nervous/angry adrenaline running high. Purely speculative but it may be more than the clothing that made Mr Smith think he did not look like a typical tourist.

He states that the individual carried the child in his arms, with her head laying on the individual’s shoulders to the right of the deponent (ie over the man’s left shoulder). He adds that he did not hold the child in a comfortable position.

I think this is important. It could of course be suggestive that the child was not in a comfortable position or was difficult to carry for some reason. Although nearly four year olds are quite large to carry, admittedly. But the child could have been sick/sedated, a combination thereof or even (if Dr Amaral's thesis is right) dying/dead.

Mrs Smith confirmed the above and stated

This is important. It wasn't just Mr Smith who noticed that the man did not seem to be a tourist and that the man was not holding the child in a comfortable position. Mrs Smith had the same perceptions.

She did not see the child's face because she was lying against the individual's left shoulder in a vertical position against the individual. She appeared to be sleeping. Her arms were suspended along her body and were not around the individual's neck. She did not look at the child's hands and cannot state the colour of her skin. She believes she was white.

You would expect a three/four year old to wake up when being carried back from the night creche.
Typically perhaps be in a drowsy stupor. Perhaps a bit grumpy or grizzly. But in a half-awake state. Not with arms dangling lifelessly as if in a coma. That is not normal, imo and is suggestive of drugging or

Members of the family returned to Portimao on 26^th May 2007 and clarified their evidence – which Dr Gonçalo Amaral, who was then leading the PJ’s investigation, considered very important.

Again, this is important. It is clear that previous evidence is being clarified. So it is not true that the Smiths did not report their sighting for weeks. The detective leading the case considered their testimony to be important enough to ask them to return to Portugal and clarify it.

On 9^th September 2007, the McCanns returned to the UK and BBC News showed them getting off an Easyjet flight. The Smith family saw the program and, from the way Gerald McCann carried his son with the child’s head over his left shoulder with hands hanging down, recognised him as the person they had seen on the night of 3^rd May 2007. On 30^th January 2008, Mr Smith made a further statement confirming -with 60-80% certainty – that the man he had seen carrying a child on 3^rd May 2007 was Gerald McCann. Mr Smith’s wife corroborated his evidence.

I find this consistent with someone who is trying to give honest testimony. Mr Smith will not state he is 100% sure because he cannot be. If he had stated there was no doubt then I would consider the testimony to be possibly deceptive as without taking Smithman's DNA he simply cannot know who he was. Mrs Smith is of the same opinion so that corroborates Mr Smith's perceptions as being reasonably accurate, imo. When people are adamant that they are right without having cast iron evidence for it, it pretty much confirms, imo, that what they are saying is likely to be deceptive and designed to discredit another argument or convince people when they do not have enough evidence to support their conviction (casting no aspersions here but a few names from over the way are popping up....)

https://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1845-a-disgusting-episode-of-distorted-evidence


[/justify]

ETA: If the man the Smiths saw was indeed GM carrying Madeleine away from OC then I think that would suggest a death earlier in the week - say by Tuesday evening.  Or a death that had happened within the previous few hours.

http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html

ETA: I have just attempted to read the above and wish I hadn't. Please do not click on it if you are remotely squeamish.....

I am sure the police would have considered all these aspects though, they must have done if Dr Amaral's theory has any validity. And TM are doctors...they too would have an awareness of such things.

A very busy day folks (and still not done), but look forward to catching up on all this stuff since this morn.... in the morn.

Andrew wrote:A very busy day folks (and still not done), but look forward to catching up on all this stuff since this morn.... in the morn.

Heh, those post Brexit trade deals aren't going to negociate themselves.

@ poster - Re: rigor mortis.

I had wondered about this because it would determine when a body could more easily be moved and placed somewhere, but it seems - "Many infant and child corpses will not exhibit perceptible rigor mortis. This decreased perceptible stiffness may be due to their smaller muscle mass."

However it does say `perceptible` which means `able to be seen or noticed`, so whether it still occurs in a less obvious way, I`m not sure.

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Rigor-Mortis-and-Other-Postmortem-Changes.html#ixzz4dz1Wnxnw

Dee Coy wrote:@poster. I too think Thursday is manufactured. I'm strongly leaning to death on the Wednesday night, these days. Enough time to get things done on the Thursday, but not enough time for the robust planning and recruitment that the smooth abduction play on the Thursday night would entail. Semi-planned, and easily derailed, which is exactly what happened.

This is where I'm at too Dee Coy, a number of more reliable witnesses say many activities were cancelled on Wednesday because of the rain, including tennis lessons and the mini sail. I think Thursday was a significant departure from routines and there looks like some orchestration by key players IMO. Is this the reason why Kate slept alone because Gerry was busy? I think it was early evening because the apartment was cleaned Thursday am and things were dry and clean enough to not alert the cleaner. This also explains lack of DNA as sheets were changed, according to TripAdvisor.

You'd wonder though how they were able to find DNA from the previous tenents?

dogs don't lie wrote:You'd wonder though how they were able to find DNA from the previous tenents?

If they found only mixed McCann DNA it would probably contain Madeleine's DNA, but be useless because it would be hard to isolate which bits are hers.

I presume the previous tenants DNA was found in places where there had been no mixing of DNA, so probably in little used parts of the apartment?

Whereas Madeleine, as a child, would deposit DNA in the same places at her siblings. It does leave us wondering what happened to her toothbrush, her hairbrush, her felt pens that she may well have chewed, her clothes that she had worn, cuddle cat and why all these items were not handed to the police?


I think the fact her bed did not have her DNA might tell us that she had the accident before she went to bed, so possibly around the time that DP made his visit?

For reference whilst on the DNA subject:

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

I was just catching up on further comments left on Pat's blog. I'll copy this one over as I fully agree with it:

Anonymous said...
I think a clue might lay in the fact that your theory has been 'Carter-rucked' Pat, whilst this Richard Hall fellow has been permitted to push his convoluted conspiracy theory completely uncontested by the McCanns legal team.

The sort of foil-hat nonsense being purported by he and his cohorts is manna from heaven to the McCanns and their followers.

It is no coincidence that your theory largely reflects that of Goncalo Amaral, who the McCanns also tried to silence.

That is the only theory they have used lawyers to shut down.

Says it all.

I've always thought that Stephen Birch is left alone to sprout his demented ramblings as there's no danger of anyone believing him.

I'm not saying that Richard is in the same league - far from it - but it could be generally true that people who are far off the mark are left to get on with it.

However, having said that, why did Carter-Ruck pounce on a certain other Mr B?

Nicked from Twitter (obviously):

Get 'em Gonçalo‏ @abuseofpower 2h2 hours ago

Replying to @Heavy_Dave
Except #McCann haven't ignored Smith sighting, it's on their website along with recording from Martin Smith, & Kate refers to it in bewk.

I've just listened to this audio recording as I don't think I ever have done before.

Here it is:

http://findmadeleine.com/videos/WITNESS%205%20AUDIO.mp3

Is that really Martin Smith? A genuine question?

This and other quotes from statements have been mentioned before.

They are read out by actors.

Does the accent sound as false to our Irish members as it does to me?

Freedom wrote:I've always thought that Stephen Birch is left alone to sprout his demented ramblings as there's no danger of anyone believing him.

I'm not saying that Richard is in the same league - far from it - but it could be generally true that people who are far off the mark are left to get on with it.

However, having said that, why did Carter-Ruck pounce on a certain other Mr B?

Wasn't there some story about him getting people to put leaflets through doors in Rothley, even in the McCann's street?

As a parent, I would want to take action if someone did that. It could cause some child to say something to the twins.

What's_up_doc? wrote:

Dee Coy wrote:@poster. I too think Thursday is manufactured. I'm strongly leaning to death on the Wednesday night, these days. Enough time to get things done on the Thursday, but not enough time for the robust planning and recruitment that the smooth abduction play on the Thursday night would entail. Semi-planned, and easily derailed, which is exactly what happened.

This is where I'm at too Dee Coy, a number of more reliable witnesses say many activities were cancelled on Wednesday because of the rain, including tennis lessons and the mini sail. I think Thursday was a significant departure from routines and there looks like some orchestration by key players IMO. Is this the reason why Kate slept alone because Gerry was busy? I think it was early evening because the apartment was cleaned Thursday am and things were dry and clean enough to not alert the cleaner. This also explains lack of DNA as sheets were changed, according to TripAdvisor.

I`m sure the cleaner went in Wednesday morning, just as the McCanns were leaving out of the patio doors.

Andrew wrote:Nicked from Twitter (obviously):

Get 'em Gonçalo‏ @abuseofpower  2h2 hours ago

Replying to @Heavy_Dave
Except #McCann haven't ignored Smith sighting, it's on their website along with recording from Martin Smith, & Kate refers to it in bewk.

I've just listened to this audio recording as I don't think I ever have done before.

Here it is:

http://findmadeleine.com/videos/WITNESS%205%20AUDIO.mp3

Is that really Martin Smith? A genuine question?

Wouldn't think so for a minute. It does not say it is him anywhere does it?

Freedom wrote:This and other quotes from statements have been mentioned before.

They are read out by actors.

Does the accent sound as false to our Irish members as it does to me?

Don't tell TB then, he thinks it is really him.

candyfloss wrote:

Freedom wrote:This and other quotes from statements have been mentioned before.

They are read out by actors.

Does the accent sound as false to our Irish members as it does to me?

Don't tell TB then, he thinks it is really him.

.... Mentioned before on here?

I didn't think it was Martin Smith. So there is no audio recording by him on their Find Madeleine site..

Just somebody pretending to be.