Maddie: parents kept info from cops

What's_up_doc? wrote:I posted this on the wrong thread earlier but whilst not sharing information they had obtained themselves, the McCanns also threatened to sue The Times for reporting that this was the case and The Times made an apology:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/mccanns-drop-court-action-as-police-release-files-861524.html

That link is about the Leicestershire police giving the McCanns info?


I do remember that, I seem to remember that the McCanns specifically complained that they had said that the efit had been withheld, and it had not been, at least not totally. From memory, anyway.

It was a shame that there was the tiny inaccuracy because it made the Times look like they had got the whole thing wrong.

From The Times 2013:

In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009. We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused."

What's_up_doc? wrote:From The Times 2013:

In articles dated October 27 ("Madeleine clues hidden for 5 years" and "Investigators had E-Fits five years ago", News) we referred to efits which were included in a report prepared by private investigators for the McCanns and the Fund in 2008. We accept that the articles may have been understood to suggest that the McCanns had withheld information from the authorities. This was not the case. We now understand and accept that the efits had been provided to the Portuguese and Leicestershire police by October 2009. We also understand that a copy of the final report including the efits was passed to the Metropolitan police in August 2011, shortly after it commenced its review. We apologise for the distress caused."

Report and efit prepared in 2008. Handed to the police in October 2009. And this is not "withheld"?

The more I read about this pair's actions in the last 10 years the angrier I get, at first it was a stupid, but understandable act to hide what happened, but since then they seem to be trying to control the world!

Well said mumof6 I find The double standards really shocking. From very early on The McCanns were using their legal might, courtesy of funds donated by the British public and wealthy donors, to demand they were allowed access to information in a investigation in which they had been declared arguidos. They made their missing daughter a ward of court in shareholders to be a now to facilitate this.

Yet it appears that simultaneously they were gathering information which they felt no similar compunction to share with the police. How could this be allowed to happen? I feel we are entering national scandal territory here.

What's_up_doc? wrote:Well said mumof6 I find The double standards really shocking. From very early on The McCanns were using their legal might, courtesy of funds donated by the British public and wealthy donors, to demand they were allowed access to information in a investigation in which they had been declared arguidos. They made their missing daughter a ward of court in shareholders to be a now to facilitate this.

Yet it appears that simultaneously they were gathering information which they felt no similar compunction to share with the police. How could this be allowed to happen? I feel we are entering national scandal territory here.

They did not get much information out of the Leicestershire police, I think 81 pieces of information that they had provided in the first place.

I think the ward of court thing backfired on them when Portugal would not allow them to take legal action in Madeleine's name without the permission of the courts.

I have not seen anywhere what the response was when Kate wrote to the PJ http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LETTER_KATE_MCCANN.htm


The ward of court thing always struck me as weird.

candyfloss wrote:McCanns 'fell out' with police over search for Madeleine

Tuesday 02 May 2017

A Home Office report details the "turbulent relationship" between the McCanns and Portuguese and British law enforcement


By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent

The parents of Madeleine McCann claimed they were treated badly by Portuguese police from the start of the investigation into her disappearance, according to a secret Home Office report.





They eventually fell out with UK authorities too and later did not share with police information gathered by their own private investigators.

The report said: "It is clear that from the beginning the McCanns felt there was a lack of clarity and communication on the part of the Portuguese police.

"Despite the involvement of British consular staff, they were, by their own accounts, left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.

"They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised.

"They describe this situation as inhumane, with no real consideration for their emotional and physical wellbeing."



The report said: "Clearly, the McCanns have had a turbulent relationship with both Portuguese and UK law enforcement. They now openly acknowledge that there is a distinct lack of trust between all parties.

:: Watch the documentary Searching For Madeleine on Sky 1 on Tuesday, 2 May at 10pm, and on Sky News on Wednesday, 3 May at 8pm.

http://news.sky.com/story/mccanns-fell-out-with-police-over-search-for-madeleine-10859915

Only just seen this, thanks candyfloss.   Yeah my heart bleeds for them        Me, me, me, as always.   Their eldest child had disappeared but forget that, TM were upset by those dedicated people doing their best to search for their daughter, but what concerned them was their own hurt feelings, not being treated as they had expected.....  

Maybe the truth will come out, I had virtually given up hope

bluebell wrote:

candyfloss wrote:McCanns 'fell out' with police over search for Madeleine

Tuesday 02 May 2017

A Home Office report details the "turbulent relationship" between the McCanns and Portuguese and British law enforcement


By Martin Brunt, Crime Correspondent

The parents of Madeleine McCann claimed they were treated badly by Portuguese police from the start of the investigation into her disappearance, according to a secret Home Office report.






They eventually fell out with UK authorities too and later did not share with police information gathered by their own private investigators.

The report said: "It is clear that from the beginning the McCanns felt there was a lack of clarity and communication on the part of the Portuguese police.

"Despite the involvement of British consular staff, they were, by their own accounts, left for long periods without any updates or communication with the investigators.

"They state they were taken to the police station on more than one occasion and then left for hours waiting to speak to someone who never materialised.

"They describe this situation as inhumane, with no real consideration for their emotional and physical wellbeing."



The report said: "Clearly, the McCanns have had a turbulent relationship with both Portuguese and UK law enforcement. They now openly acknowledge that there is a distinct lack of trust between all parties.

:: Watch the documentary Searching For Madeleine on Sky 1 on Tuesday, 2 May at 10pm, and on Sky News on Wednesday, 3 May at 8pm.

http://news.sky.com/story/mccanns-fell-out-with-police-over-search-for-madeleine-10859915

Only just seen this, thanks candyfloss.   Yeah my heart bleeds for them        Me, me, me, as always.   Their eldest child had disappeared but forget that, TM were upset by those dedicated people doing their best to search for their daughter, but what concerned them was their own hurt feelings, not being treated as they had expected.....  

Maybe the truth will come out, I had virtually given up hope

I wonder how many people Kate left waiting when she was working as a doctor? Some, no doubt, waiting for life changing news? Did she consider herself inhumane?

This one leaves me speechless, their sense of entitlement, of being special, is incredible. Fancy making them wait, rather than the police waiting for them. Fancy not laying on comfy chairs, drinks and snacks. Fancy not putting out the red carpet!

To me, this, by itself, is conclusive evidence that they knew Madeleine was dead when they called the police. They were not thinking of Madeleine, not desperate to get her back, it was just an inconvenience to have to turn up at the police station.

No parent of a missing child would risk a "turbulent" relationship with the police, they would be trying to keep the police on side, working for their child.

There is a passage in KM's book about May 4 2007 when the McCanns are taken in for questioning by police in Luz. Kate complains that they did not offer them any food or drinks and she seems very miffed about this. Again odd behaviour, like previously getting a 'few hours sleep' on the night her daughter disappears - what did she expect to be provided with and how odd that she is thinking of food? I get the impression that she is a very immature person who expects to be looked after by others. All this carping and criticising of the PJ is very troubling, she even makes unflattering observations about their appearance, like some mean teenager on a bus with nothing better to do than sneer at ugly, scruffy old people! Who would do this under such dreadful circumstances? I really think that if some monster has abducted your child, you would be very grateful and trusting of those you perceive as being 'the good guys', certainly initially at least. Instead she appears to sit in judgement right from the beginning, like the queen in Alice in Wonderland, "Off with their heads!" There is an immediate mistrust of the police which is not how most parents would react IMO and an imperiousness which is very unpleasant.

It strikes me as they knew Maddie was not going to be found,so obviously the search didn't concern them ,but they felt they were entitled to fuss, attention and special treatment as the parents of a 'missing ' child. IMO

A smear campaign from day one?

What's_up_doc? wrote:There is a passage in KM's book about May 4 2007 when the McCanns are taken in for questioning by police in Luz. Kate complains that they did not offer them any food or drinks and she seems very miffed about this. Again odd behaviour, like previously getting a 'few hours sleep' on the night her daughter disappears - what did she expect to be provided with and how odd that she is thinking of food? I get the impression that she is a very immature person who expects to be looked after by others. All this carping and criticising of the PJ is very troubling, she even makes unflattering observations about their appearance, like some mean teenager on a bus with nothing better to do than sneer at ugly, scruffy old people! Who would do this under such dreadful circumstances? I really think that if some monster has abducted your child, you would be very grateful and trusting of those you perceive as being 'the good guys', certainly initially at least. Instead she appears to sit in judgement right from the beginning, like the queen in Alice in Wonderland, "Off with their heads!" There is an immediate mistrust of the police which is not how most parents would react IMO and an imperiousness which is very unpleasant.

I see the word `colonial` is being used a lot about the British and it seems the McCanns had the same attitude, particularly dear Gerry - you often see this attitude in the nouveau riche who come from working class backgrounds desperately needing to ally themselves with powerful people. Gerry`s Mum seems a genuine person and probably has an idea what her son was up to.

As for Kate, I agree about the teenager attitude - also shown in the way she has always dressed.

Mimi wrote:

What's_up_doc? wrote:There is a passage in KM's book about May 4 2007 when the McCanns are taken in for questioning by police in Luz. Kate complains that they did not offer them any food or drinks and she seems very miffed about this. Again odd behaviour, like previously getting a 'few hours sleep' on the night her daughter disappears - what did she expect to be provided with and how odd that she is thinking of food? I get the impression that she is a very immature person who expects to be looked after by others. All this carping and criticising of the PJ is very troubling, she even makes unflattering observations about their appearance, like some mean teenager on a bus with nothing better to do than sneer at ugly, scruffy old people! Who would do this under such dreadful circumstances? I really think that if some monster has abducted your child, you would be very grateful and trusting of those you perceive as being 'the good guys', certainly initially at least. Instead she appears to sit in judgement right from the beginning, like the queen in Alice in Wonderland, "Off with their heads!" There is an immediate mistrust of the police which is not how most parents would react IMO and an imperiousness which is very unpleasant.

I see the word `colonial` is being used a lot about the British and it seems the McCanns had the same attitude, particularly dear Gerry - you often see this attitude in the nouveau riche who come from working class backgrounds desperately needing to ally themselves with powerful people. Gerry`s Mum seems a genuine person and probably has an idea what her son was up to.

As for Kate, I agree about the teenager attitude - also shown in the way she has always dressed.

Not sure about colonial, I have heard it described as an "island mentality". Which, I suppose, is inevitable, it is, after all, an island, and many people don't leave it. Some don't leave the safety of being British even when they do go on holiday abroad, when they go to the resorts that offer British food, British child care, British meal times, and go to the mock "British pub" that is there purely for the tourists.

Rich kids still go off for their gap year to experience other countries and ways of life, like they have for a couple of hundred years now, but many package tours, especially the "all inclusive", give no experience of the place they are going to. Maybe a tour to a dead church, devoid of any people, to buy a postcard, or a special English speaking tourist tea shop with a view.

Anybody who has not experienced anything else is likely to believe their way is better. Children demonstrate this when they go to a friends house for the first time, and complain that "those aren't proper chips" because they are used to a different shape.


I feel that the McCanns had made some very powerful friends, but I get the feeling that they have not managed to make many new powerful allies. That means that their powerful allies are gradually moving on, or retiring, and their supporter base will be diluted. Kate's world view, where she seems to feel that she is "owed" something for being the mother of a missing child, is not likely to attract most people, I would have thought?

i think, eventually, there will be a change politically, eventually their powerful friends will move on. Of course by then they might be able to claim the "old people" sympathy card, where any action would be unfair as they are elderly.

I think with regards to a change politically, there already had been. Jim Gamble really did stick the knife in last night and there's definitely some bad blood there. I think Theresa May is a very different political animal to her predecessors, Cameron, Brown and Blair. I tend to think she is more thorough, will not be emotionally blackmailed and will want to do the right thing. Colin Sutton has spoken out, giving weight to the growing chorus of dissent, I think it would be very difficult to manoeuvre out of this now without some serious back pedalling. That's my hope anyway.

If the political will is there, we will see enough backpedalling to win the tour-de-France, backwards.

I hope that Theresa May is more likely to go for the truth. Failing that, maybe the boot is now on the other foot, and Portugal can give the UK conditions for support in the EU?

It would then depend on just how annoyed Portugal was about the way the UK acted 10 years ago, will the will be there to request 2 metaphorical heads on a silver platter?

I think the fact that they were phoning people on the night of the disappearance, telling them that nothing was happening ( even thought they were not searching themselves but oiling the media machine instead) shows that the relationship with the PJ was doomed. Portraying the PJ as incompetent seems to be part of the strategy: divide and conquer.

The idea that the PJ are incompetent is a necessary explanation for the total absence of any evidence of an abduction, and for the tricky fact that they are the chief suspects.

mumof6 wrote:

What's_up_doc? wrote:I think the fact that they were phoning people on the night of the disappearance, telling them that nothing was happening ( even thought they were not searching themselves but oiling the media machine instead) shows that the relationship with the PJ was doomed. Portraying the PJ as incompetent seems to be part of the strategy: divide and conquer.

The idea that the PJ are incompetent is a necessary explanation for the total absence of any evidence of an abduction, and for the tricky fact that they are the chief suspects.

It was necessary to portray the PJ as incompetent so that they could, from the very beginning, get the UK public onside believing that they were being fitted up for a crime they didn't do in a foreign land. Very much trying to turn it into a case of unfair persecution by a foreign lazy and incompetent police force. They played that up from the start and it's been the thrust of their arguments ever since. That was how they could get away with referring to Madeleine's fund as a "fighting" fund - fighting against their own prosecution.

canada12 wrote:

mumof6 wrote:

What's_up_doc? wrote:I think the fact that they were phoning people on the night of the disappearance, telling them that nothing was happening ( even thought they were not searching themselves but oiling the media machine instead) shows that the relationship with the PJ was doomed. Portraying the PJ as incompetent seems to be part of the strategy: divide and conquer.

The idea that the PJ are incompetent is a necessary explanation for the total absence of any evidence of an abduction, and for the tricky fact that they are the chief suspects.

It was necessary to portray the PJ as incompetent so that they could, from the very beginning, get the UK public onside believing that they were being fitted up for a crime they didn't do in a foreign land. Very much trying to turn it into a case of unfair persecution by a foreign lazy and incompetent police force. They played that up from the start and it's been the thrust of their arguments ever since. That was how they could get away with referring to Madeleine's fund as a "fighting" fund - fighting against their own prosecution.

I think that's the bottom line canada12 - I just wish the British press could see that and stop fawning over the McCanns and just be a bit more rational.