Portuguese Police Reports

Candyfloss if this is already here somewhere just delete it but, God knows how, ive never read this stuff. I glanced over it, but was new to me..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SUNDRYS.htm

That's first time I have ever seen this ,has anyone else ?joyce1938

I saw ddl's post this morn and had a quick look Joyce. It's something that I've not come across before or If I have I can't remember it.

It's a bit confusing though. Where have the 'confiscated items' come from?

It states - Arguido: Robert Murat and others...... Am I right in saying the 'others' is K and G or not?

Probably need to look at it again to be fair.

That is a complete mystery ,to me ,seems like someone went around collcting old clotes and odd shoes STRANGE . joyce1938

I thought it was a list of various bits and pieces of (mostly) clothing found in various places locally after MM's disappearance.

If you knew a child was missing I suppose you are more alert, and finding a shoe here, some tops and trousers there, a handwritten note near the apartments etc. one would pass them to the police in case it could be relevant to the investigation ?

The PdL being a beach type family holiday area there would be a lot of children's clothing lost, lying around or dropped from bags I suppose.   Just an idea, could be wrong.

Just had a thought about bag of clothes . If my child was missing ,I would want all those odds and ends checked by myself ,soon know if any of maddies was there ,I would have to have done ,I couldn't be satisfied . Maybe they did ? joyce1938

There's a number of files that weren't released, maybe something was found?

I'm intrigued by some of the reports missing from the case file, many of which centre around April 30, the day KM does not refer to in her book and also May I which is also an odd day from what I can gather. So missing from the files:

Map of phone pings for GM on May 1. All other days are included and do not reveal anything unexpected in terms of locations, as far as I can see.

The details of over 50 UK subscribers contacted by the Tapas 9 in the critical period, as well as their onward local and international call records, was included in the Rogatory Letter request in December 2007. If this information was provided, it is not in the CD
* A critical link chart (Anexo 37) for Tuesday 1st May 2007 is missing from Inspector Dias's report

Analysis of creche registers for dates April 30 and May 1.

Analysis of phone contacts of Tapas 9 for dates April 28 - May 1.

Had anyone noted any other critical information missing, relating to this time period? We also know that both Kate and Gerry deleted their phone history for this period. I wanted to check the pings for GM's phone on May 1 because I thought he might have travelled on this day so I was shocked to find it is the one day which is missing.

This may be someone else on the forum or may belong to another thread but I had never before seen this reconstruction of how the McCanns got down onto their hands and knees and prostrated themselves upon the arrival of police in the resort that fateful evening.

If you look at the 1.30 point in the video you will see that Gerry, on arrival of police at the scene, prostrated himself on the ground.

Later both Gerry and Kate prostrated themselves on the bed in their bedroom, again praying as if Arabs - this can be seen in the reconstruction at the 1.39 point.

Seeing this in a reconstruction makes you realize how WEIRD the Portuguese police must have thought they were behaving. -

This is simply NOT the behaviour of parents whose child has very recently disappeared UNLESS they know what has happened to the child. Parents whose child had disappeared who didn't know what had happened would be hugely focused and proactive. Scared and worried, yes, but counting every second and minute and wanting to cooperate fully with police and with the search.

No wonder the Portuguese police did not believe the Mcs or the friends from the very beginning.


https://hidehocontroversyofmadeleinemccann.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/portuguese-police-investigation/

ETA; Sorry, but could the Mcs have made themselves look more guilty upon the arrival of the police? No wonder their friends were elsewhere, allegedly 'searching' for Madeleine along increasingly desolate roads?

I know I shouldn't laugh but presumably at the 1.43 moment when the GNR officers both look at each other in astonishment as Kate and Gerry prostrate themselves on the bed, the 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee' officers both must realize who is likely to be behind Madeleine's disappearance. Not long after that it would appear that Dr Amaral is heading up the 'big guns' team - and one of the biggest searches ever is undertaken.

Oh dear- what stupid lies TM told - if it had not been for the press and high level intervention this case surely would have been cracked quite early on?

IMO!


https://hidehocontroversyofmadeleinemccann.wordpress.com/2015/07/09/portuguese-police-investigation/

I recall ,that someone did say ,what the macs did by lying prostrate on bed was possably to elert police to Masonic symbol, and hope it would make things easier for them 2.joyce1938

I seem to remember Bogart alleging in his Smithman Video (sadly not available) that GM threw himself down on the floor in front of police to cover any marks he might have had on his trousers!

Or because an abductor was seen wearing beige trousers with buttons by a family of nine maybe?

I wonder did "someone" have beige trousers on, was seen by a family of nine, by the time the trousers returned to the OC reception they were met by officers so dropped to the ground to hide marks that were already there, but then they were left on the bed for the photos for proof that they weren't worn that night?
I did try to find the clear pic of the trousers (and buttons) on the bed but only found a blurry one with something beige crumpled on the bed
Just a thought because if the trousers were seen that night but left on the bed, then what other reason would there be for a quick change, if this happened ofcourse?
IMO

amber1911 wrote:I seem to remember Bogart alleging in his Smithman Video (sadly not available) that GM threw himself down on the floor in front of police to cover any marks he might have had on his trousers!

Yes, GA in his book mooted that the prostration could be to disguise incriminating marks:

http://missingmadeleine.forumotion.net/t8366-chapter-11-analysis-of-a-crime-scene-apartment-5a


[size=34]- In fact, do you know that the little girl's father got on his knees imploring the GNR police officers to help him when they arrived?[/size]

[size=34]- That man, usually so cold, apparently lost control?[/size]

[size=34]- ???[/size]

[size=34]- Contamination... deliberately make his trousers dirty to hide compromising marks...[/size]

[size=34]- I think you're watching too many thrillers. Don't forget that it's his daughter who has disappeared![/size]

[size=34]- There are two beds in the parents' bedroom, which have been pushed together; there is a wide space on the right, up to the wardrobe. One of the two beds has visibly not been occupied.[/size]



https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ocean+club+5a&safe=active&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=misvn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfpvPG9YvVAhXrJsAKHQSjCWsQ_AUICigC&biw=568&bih=232#q=ocean+club+5a&hl=en-gb&safe=active&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CQ4qmAnnF5P8IkCmkKAWrx1CllER1Zbo3WHfN1TtVchlueyXnNpPdt62ABMEhwxroOEodiOJAz1we-0YwTIMYB7MryNFhZyGxn_19KhIJppCgFq8dQpYRl6h1LpFXNdEqEglREdWW6N1h3xEWBqzvG0roKioSCTdU7VXIZbnsERYGrO8bSugqKhIJl5zaT3betgARXDd8EOM8iQgqEgkTBIcMa6DhKBGsDCGogq_1XgyoSCXYjiQM9cHvtER0Ov8oVz55vKhIJGMEyDGAezK8RHH-Hvo91UzsqEgkjRYWchsZ_1_1RH-LeBKMcdOGQ%3D%3D&imgrc=DiqYCecXk_zjyM:


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https://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t161-compare-and-contrast-5a-at-4am-and-again-at-4pm-on-4th-may-2007?highlight=Compare+++%2Bcontrast

Can't find a clearer one, ddl, was there another?

There was Deecoy, they were kinda draped over the bottom of the bed, buttons seen too, hope I haven't imagined it, but I can't find it again

Thank u Bampots, can you remember seeing them lying flat on the bed? I'm seriously starting to doubt myself

Could that be a half board wristband on the floor beside the sandals?

I still find it odd why you would push the beds together like that.  If you look carefully the beds are still made as single beds with the bedspread going down each side of the bed, therefore there would be no point in pushing them together, as you would still be completely separate from each other cos the bedsheets would stop you getting together. 

However, in the vanity fair article, didn't Gerry say the twins were sleeping on the bed??.  Which then it would make sense to push the beds together, as there is a lot more room and they would not roll off so easily?  Just a theory.

dogs don't lie wrote:I wonder did "someone" have beige trousers on, was seen by a family of nine, by the time the trousers returned to the OC reception they were met by officers so dropped to the ground to hide marks that were already there, but then they were left on the bed for the photos for proof that they weren't worn that night?
I did try to find the clear pic of the trousers (and buttons) on the bed but only found a blurry one with something beige crumpled on the bed
Just a thought because if the trousers were seen that night but left on the bed, then what other reason would there be for a quick change, if this happened ofcourse?
IMO

That's interesting! I suppose it could be a combination of factors. Sheer desperation and despair plus the need to hide something?

But what about what Smith-man was wearing on his upper half? Presumably this would be contaminated too? (Although I suppose much of his upper half would be hidden by the child so perhaps not such a good description of upper half clothing?)

If Smith-man is as important to the narrative as he appears to be, then presumably this would explain why Tanner-man is such a bodge-job? He was hatched at the last minute because he is the product of such desperation and he is therefore implausible?

Just suppose - the drama was supposed to kick off at 9.15pm. Around the time that GM supposedly 'bumps into' Jez Wilkins. Several eye-witnesses recall hearing a commotion about a missing child well before 10pm which is the time that Kate claims in her book that she raised the alarm.

The family at home talk about 'jemmied shutters'. Presumably, the shutters were supposed to have been jemmied at around 9.15pm but were not. One can only speculate this would be because the person who was supposed to do the 'jemmying' pulled out, changed his or her mind or was prevented from doing it. Possibly it means that someone or several people sabotaged the plan, either deliberately or inadvertently (Jez Wilkins springs to mind here...)

So - if there really was a last-minute 'disaster' such as above - then just suppose that Smith-man really is GM possibly carrying Madeleine (or a decoy child as some argue)? Needs must, GM and TM generally are in a panic, as is evidenced by at least one of the Tapas rogatories which describes members of the group running around aimlessly and hopelessly like headless (chickens, one assumes?)

Why would they be running around in circles like headless chickens?

Well, presumably the arrival of the police had a lot to do with it as would Smith-man having been spotted by a family of nine. One of whom reportedly spoke to him.

If there is any credence in the above, then the timescales involved are incredibly tight. It might then become apparent why TM appear to drag out calling the police. Poor old Matt appears to have been sent up to the reception to ask staff to call police. Talk about a snail-trail. What happened to mobile phones? (Mrs Fenn offered hers but GM said police already called). TM might just as well used two cups with a piece of string between them.

TM thought Portuguese police were like 'Tweedledum and Tweedledee'. I would love to think what the Portuguese police thought about the Mcs and their friends...

dogs don't lie wrote:There was Deecoy, they were kinda draped over the bottom of the bed, buttons seen too, hope I haven't imagined it, but I can't find it again

I can.... iirc they were draped over end of bed

candyfloss wrote:I still find it odd why you would push the beds together like that.  If you look carefully the beds are still made as single beds with the bedspread going down each side of the bed, therefore there would be no point in pushing them together, as you would still be completely separate from each other cos the bedsheets would stop you getting together. 

However, in the vanity fair article, didn't Gerry say the twins were sleeping on the bed??.  Which then it would make sense to push the beds together, as there is a lot more room and they would not roll off so easily?  Just a theory.

The sandals at the end of the bed - are they adult size or kids'? Mr Coy reckons children's but I think the style is a man's sandal. Could they be Sean's?