Thoughts on Conspiracy Theories

What do you make of this Poster?
Roy Whiting's first victim
by HELEN WEATHERS, Daily Mail
Like most teenagers, she often drives her parents to distraction. Just turned 16, she can switch in seconds from being the lovely little girl they remember - usually when she gets what she wants - into a silent, sulking stranger when she doesn't.
Their battlegrounds are common to most parents. The untidy state of her bedroom; her refusal to study; the non-communicative grunts which greet most questions; and her mother's insistence that Anne be home by 10.30pm when she goes out.
They hope it is just a phase, but they are not sure. Indeed, they worry incessantly that her behaviour, far from being normal, is instead betraying some terrible inner turmoil which they are powerless to stop.
Their fears are not without foundation. For their daughter has to live with the knowledge that, aged nine, she was paedophile Roy Whiting's first victim, and eight-year-old Sarah Payne was his second. Anne survived and Sarah did not.
It is something she has barely spoken to her parents about since the Saturday in March 1995 when Whiting grabbed her off the street in broad daylight and threw her, kicking and screaming, into his red Ford Sierra. Then he drove to some woods where, after threatening her with a knife, he subjected her to a terrifying sexual assault.
Anne has become even more guarded since Whiting's trial last month in which the harrowing details of Sarah Payne's murder on July 1, 2000, emerged. Snatched and bundled into his white van as she walked alone to her grandparents' home in West Sussex, Sarah was sexually abused and then murdered. Her naked body was discovered in a shallow grave 17 days later.
Sentencing him to spend the rest of his life in prison, Mr Justice Curtis branded the 41-year-old divorced father-of-one 'every parent and grandparent's nightmare come true'.
The parents of his first victim know only too well the truth of that statement. Tom and Susan's only comfort - if it can be called that - is that the police picked up Whiting so quickly because Sarah Payne's abduction bore all the hallmarks of the previous attack on their daughter.
'Our daughter rarely talks about what happened to her, and we don't like to pry for fear of dragging up all the memories,' says 37-year-old Susan, an office administrator. 'We told her from the start "We are here for you if you want to talk", but she has rarely wanted to.
'We can't help but worry about the effect all this has had on her. She is very headstrong and rebellious - if you tell her something is black, she will tell you it is white.
'She is fiercely independent and acts as if she is invincible. It's almost as if she thinks: "No one can ever hurt me that way again."
Tom, 41, an airport worker adds: 'We don't know if she is simply being a normal teenager, or whether her behaviour is a result of what she went through. One minute she is gorgeous, and the next a complete monster.
'I'm not convinced we know the full details of what Whiting did to her. She has told us and the police only so much, because, we believe, she didn't want to upset us.
'All she will say is: "You don't know what it was like." I think she needs counselling, but you can't make her do anything she doesn't want to do.'
There is no doubt that the murder of Sarah Payne, and Whiting's conviction 18 months later, have forced the family to relive a nightmare they were only just beginning to put behind them. They also feel intensely the grief of Sarah's parents, Sara and Michael, whose daughter they know was not as lucky as theirs.
Anne, then aged nine, was still in bed when Susan, who also has a son two years older than her daughter, left for work that Saturday in 1995. The family car wouldn't start, so she had to take a taxi to her office instead.
'I phoned home at around 1pm and this man answered the phone. He said "Who are you?" and I replied: "Who are you?" I thought we'd been burgled and that the burglar had picked up the phone. Now, of course, I wish it had been that.
'The man on the end of the phone told me he was a police officer and said: "Something has happened - where are you?" I immediately thought my husband had been in some kind of accident, but the officer wouldn't tell me anything. He said he would send a car to pick me up.
'That was the worst feeling in the world, sitting in my office for half an hour not knowing what had happened. My mind ran riot.
'On the journey home, I was told my daughter had been abducted. My first reaction was absolute anger. I kept demanding to know where she was, who had her, what had happened, but they couldn't tell me anything. By the time I got home, I was desperate. I thought I would never see my daughter again.
'They told me the police helicopter was out looking for her and they had set up roadblocks, but I thought: "How many children kidnapped by strangers are released?" I thought she had gone for ever.
'I could feel the panic rising and couldn't stop crying. I didn't know what to do. I phoned my husband, who was with some friends, and told him she was missing.
He rushed straight home. He was beside himself with anger and the sheer frustration of not being able to help her.'
That morning, Anne had set off to an indoor adventure playground with three girl friends and her elder brother, telling her father that she would be back at around 5pm.
At around lunchtime, however, she remembered a friend's birthday party she was supposed to be at and the four girls left together, refusing her brother's offer to walk them all home.
Having dropped off one girl, the remaining trio were walking back to the housing estate in Crawley where they lived when a man came rushing towards them and tried to bundle all three into a car. Two of the girls ducked under his arms, but he managed to grab hold of Anne's arms and throw her, twisting and screaming, into the back of the car, then drove off.
Her two friends ran to raise the alarm, but as Tom and Susan sat in the lounge of their three-bedroom terrace house, surrounded by police officers, they could only imagine what terrors their daughter was going through and wonder whether they would see her alive again.
Then, at 2.30pm, there was a knock at the door. When Susan went to answer it, she was astounded to see her daughter standing there.
'I just picked her up and took her indoors,' says Susan. 'She was incredibly calm. The first thing she said to me was: "Mum, why are you crying?"
'The police were flabbergasted.
They said: "Who is she? Is this your daughter?" Like us, I don't think they had held out much hope of finding her alive. I sat her on my lap and put my arms around her. I just wanted to make her mine again.'
Gently the police started questioning Anne, trying to find out as much as they could about the man who had abducted her, in the hope of catching him before he disappeared.
The details of the attack emerged later that day when specially trained child protection officers arrived. Anne's parents listened in horror as she told the police how she'd desperately tried to get out of the car, but the child locks were on. She kept crying 'I want my daddy', and Whiting turned round and told her to shut up.
She talked about his greasy hair, the Bart Simpson sticker in the back of the car, and the woods where the car finally pulled up. She told them how he ordered her to take her clothes off and, when she refused, showed her a knife. He then sexually assaulted her in the car.
After the attack, he drove back to Crawley and dropped her a few hundred yards from her home. Anne's father was so sickened by what he heard, he punched a metal door frame and broke his hand.
At the medical centre, police examined Anne and took samples for forensic evidence. It was past 1am when she and her parents returned home. Back at their house, Susan bathed her daughter, hoping to wash away every trace of her ordeal.
'Anne wanted to go straight back to school, but we couldn't let her,' says Susan. 'She still had to make proper police statements on video.
'The thing that worried us most was how calm she was. She only got upset if she saw that we were upset - she bottled it all up.
'When she went back to school a week later, she was different. Before, she had been very helpful and conscientious, but suddenly she couldn't concentrate and would bite people's heads off.
'Everyone was treading on eggshells with her and she was aware she could get away with anything. She was always outgoing, but she became even more so, as if to prove no one could hurt her again.
'Because she had been so vulnerable, she started to overcompensate for her vulnerability by acting the tough cookie.
But there were little things which revealed how she was really feeling. When we went out, she would cross the road if she saw any man walking towards us, and she would jump if she saw a red car.
'She went for counselling, but that lasted only three months because the woman she was seeing had to retire through ill-health. After that, she didn't want to go through it all over again with someone new.
'It was a very difficult time for the whole family. We all went on our own little guilt trips. I thought "If only I hadn't gone to work that day", and my husband wished he'd been at home too.
'But even if we had all been at home, it would still have happened. Our daughter would still have gone to the play centre with her friends. They'd been sensible - there were three of them walking home together.
'They felt safe. It was a milliontoone chance that Roy Whiting came along.
'My husband and I could easily have split up because of the strain. We couldn't talk to each other without me breaking down in tears and him working himself up into a fury.
'He was consumed with revenge and wanted to kill the man who'd done this to his daughter, when all I wanted to do was get the family unit back together. I felt we had to block out what Whiting had done to her, otherwise we'd all be tormented for life.'
Amazingly, Roy Whiting was arrested two weeks later when the man who'd bought his red Sierra became suspicious after finding a knife under the driver's seat and contacted police. Whiting was arrested and confessed to abducting and assaulting Anne.
'We were delighted when he was arrested,' says Susan. The police hadn't held out much hope of catching him and, to be quite honest, neither did we.
'We had very mixed feelings when we finally saw him in court. We were expecting to see a monster, but he just looked like a run-of-the-mill guy. Normal. It felt very strange.
'We wanted to see him, but at the same time we didn't because we hated him for what he had done to our daughter. He didn't look at us once.'
Whiting was jailed for just four years after he claimed he had 'just snapped'. A psychiatrist's report concluded that although there was a high risk of his re-offending, he was not a paedophile.
'We were horrified,' says Anne's father. 'We had been hoping for much longer. Our understanding is that someone who interferes with children is a paedophile, but according to the law it's not. They have to have had sexual feelings towards children for six months. It is unbelievable.'
Whiting was released after serving just two-and-a-half years, and the family was told he had settled in Littlehampton, 40 miles away. A probation officer told them he would never be allowed to return to Crawley.
'He could have been the other end of the Earth and it wouldn't have been far away enough for us,' says Susan. 'All our daughter wanted to know is that he would never come back. But we later found out that he did come back ... and everyone was powerless to stop him.
'We had absolutely no doubts that Whiting would re-offend, and we felt very helpless knowing that other parents might go through what we had. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.'
Like the rest of the nation, the family were horrified when Sarah Payne went missing, and their hearts went out to her parents when the little girl's body was found.
However, initially they did not make the connection with Whiting. Indeed, when Whiting's photograph was published, Anne didn't even recognise him.
Susan says: 'When the police told me they were questioning Whiting about Sarah Payne's murder, my blood ran cold. I thought: "My God, that could have been our daughter." We were horrified and wondered how we were going to tell her.
'We told her that the police were talking to Whiting, but no more than that, even though we were absolutely convinced he had done it. At that stage we didn't know if he would be charged, and we didn't want to upset our daughter.
'She didn't really take it in at all. The first realisation of the connection was when a boy at school shouted across a corridor: "The bloke who killed Sarah Payne is the same bloke who kidnapped you."
'I got a phone call at work from the school saying that my daughter was distraught and asking me to pick her up. It was the first time she'd realised that another child had gone through the same thing as her and had died. She kept saying "Why didn't you tell me?" and "It could have been me".
'We told her that she had to be positive, and it was because of what she'd been through that they'd been able to catch him for Sarah's murder.'
Mother and daughter attended the memorial service for Sarah Payne at Guildford Cathedral, but they knew they could not comfort the Paynes because Anne might have to give evidence at Whiting's trial, which proved unnecessary because the forensic evidence was so strong.
'Our daughter cried from the minute we got there. It was her decision to go and we longed to speak to the Paynes and comfort them, but we couldn't because we weren't allowed.'
Susan and Tom, however, did offer their silent support by attending every day of Whiting's trial in the hope of seeing him put away for life.
'We would say good morning to the Paynes, but we didn't go further than that - we didn't want to intrude,' says Susan. 'This was about their daughter, not ours, so we kept a respectful distance.
'We were elated when Whiting was found guilty and ordered to be detained at Her Majesty's Pleasure. We'd promised our daughter that we would let her know the moment we heard, but she was 80 feet up a tree on an outdoor pursuit course and she didn't have her mobile, so we sent a text message.
'That night, she just told us how much she'd enjoyed her day and didn't mention Whiting at all. She kept her feelings to herself, just as she always has done.'
As a result of Sarah Payne's murder, Home Secretary David Blunkett is now considering new laws under which paedophiles and serious sex offenders could get 'one strike and you're out' life sentences to keep them off the streets after a first offence.
Such a move would be welcomed by Anne's parents. 'Even if Whiting had received a longer sentence for the attack on our daughter, he still would have gone on to re-offend. It just would have happened later, to someone other than Sarah Payne,' says Tom.
'I can't see any solution apart from longer sentences, proper rehabilitation and tagging. But the sad fact is you can't protect your children 24 hours a day, even if you know a paedophile is living near you.'
Anne may have survived 'every parent's worst nightmare', but the family are still coming to terms with it. They believe her life was spared only because Whiting - knowing he'd been seen by the two other girls - suspected he might be caught.
Although on the surface their daughter is coping well - she is popular and has many friends - they can see little direction in her life. She dropped out of school to go to college, but she is now threatening to drop out again, with no qualifications.
Her big ambition, say her parents, is to get her own flat where she can 'come and go as she pleases'. Her parents try to make her understand that she needs a job to pay for that, and she needs an education to get a job.
It is a fine balance between giving her independence and offering guidance, and they are not sure yet if they are succeeding. Every day they have to resist the temptation to wrap her up in cotton wool in order to protect her.
'We say to her "You were lucky - you survived. Sarah hasn't",' says Tom. '"You have got to go out there and live for two people."
'You can't wrap your children up in cotton wool and lock them away 24 hours a day - that is no life. What we want is for Anne to have the best life she possibly can. Not only for her sake, but for Sarah's.'
¿ For legal reasons, the family's names have been changed.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-95390/Roy-Whitings-victim.html#ixzz4EAZgf8Kv
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Hmmm - I think that saying "no comment" to everything as he did is highly suspicious!

Of course that was his right to do so but why on Earth would an innocent person not answer truthfully?

Thanks to Bampots for posting this link elsewhere about an earlier victim of Roy Whiting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-95390/Roy-Whitings-victim.html#ixzz4EAZgf8Kv

I just don't think the forensics stand up in the convictions of either Ian Huntley or Roy Whiting.

http://www.justjustice.org/

Snipped from Daily Mail article linked above:

That morning, Anne had set off to an indoor adventure playground with three girl friends and her elder brother, telling her father that she would be back at around 5pm.
At around lunchtime, however, she remembered a friend's birthday party she was supposed to be at and the four girls left together, refusing her brother's offer to walk them all home.
Having dropped off one girl, the remaining trio were walking back to the housing estate in Crawley where they lived when a man came rushing towards them and tried to bundle all three into a car. Two of the girls ducked under his arms, but he managed to grab hold of Anne's arms and throw her, twisting and screaming, into the back of the car, then drove off.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-95390/Roy-Whitings-victim.html#ixzz4ECVIbVIK
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

So this abductor tried to abduct all three girls at the same time in broad day-light?

Really?

How was he single-handedly going to get three (9 year old?) girls into a car all at the same time?

What was the plan? One in the front seat and two in the back?

Or all three in the back?

Unless he had as many arms as an octopus, I would have thought the simultaneous abduction of three 9 year old girls would be nigh on impossible?

Ok - it appears he confessed to this although interesting that the psychiatrist did not think he was a paedophile.

Just a very odd account of the attack, imo.


Roy Whiting was arrested twice after the abduction of Sarah Payne, the first arrest being a routine check because he had a white van and because he had been put on the sex offender's register after being convicted for the abduction and sexual assault of an eight-year-old girl in 1995. A psychiatrist who had examined him did not think he was a paedophile though, and Whiting claimed that he had just "snapped". He had owned up to this.

Isn't it more likely that the serial child killer Levi Bellfield - the man eventually convicted of Milly Dowler's murder - was Sarah Payne's killer? He apparently befriended Sarah's father at a local pub several years after Sarah's death....



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2817398/Milly-Dowler-s-killer-tormented-grieving-father-Sarah-Payne-befriending-local-pub-height-killing-spree.html#

ETA: If there is any truth in the idea that both Ian Huntley and Roy Whiting were wrongfully convicted - and hopefully there isn't - then I can think of quite good reasons for this.

1. If the Soham girls had tragically met their fate at the hand or hands of those residing within the walls of the nearby US airbase - as some have theorized - then the truth of what had really happened would damage Tony Blair's Iraq invasion.

2. Convicted serial child killer Levi Bellfield was able to murder Milly Dowler in Walton-upon-Thames 2002 but remained free until he was convicted of the murder of two other girls in 2008 - is this correct? I think it was when he was in prison for these two murders that he confessed to the killing of Milly Dowler? Is that right? Several years after Milly's death while still walking free Levi makes friends with Sarah Payne's father in the exact same town where Milly Dowler was murered?

3. Sarah Payne was murdered in the year 2000. If her killer was not Roy Whiting then who was it? And why would Milly Dowler's killer just happen to get chummy with the father of Sarah Payne in the exact same town where he murdered Milly Dowler?

After his February 2008 convictions, Bellfield was named by police as a suspect in connection with numerous unsolved murders and attacks on women dating back to 1990 – as well as the murder of his childhood girlfriend, 14-year-old Patsy Morris in 1980.[19]


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi_Bellfield

The justice link you posted earlier was the same one I read some time back and mentioned on the thread the other day.

The other link with some more detail about Whiting:

http://www.justjustice.org/cheshire.html

And this one that covers some other cases.

http://www.justjustice.org/algebra.html

I agree that it makes fascinating reading but we don't know how true any of it actually is do we?

It's all the 'other side of the fence' stuff.

Whilst I like to be 'on the fence' looking at all of it. Then making my mind up.

I tend to believe the author of the articles in the links above. That there were a number of false convictions relating to the cases mentioned. Ian Huntley in particular stands out, imo. But also Stuart Campbell (the Danielle Jones case) a case I was muddling up with the April Jones case. I don't think there is a shred of evidence that Stuart Campbell was responsible for the disappearance of Danielle Jones and it was the interviews with him and what he said and his body language that convinced me of that he was innocent.

In terms of the April Jones case, while Whiting's history is not exactly blemish-free, I just don't think the forensics stand scrutiny.

There appear to be suggestions that serial killer Levi Bellfield might have been behind the Russell killings in 1996. And it is beyond dispute that he has a long history of criminal offences. Just say he was responsible for the Russell killings but that police made a blunder....taking into account his past history...he then went on to kill many others - including Milly Dowler - as well as assaulting others and leaving some with serious scars.

Makes you wonder that if police had properly investigated him from the very beginning then maybe many, many lives would have been saved and many people would have been spared from horrendous heart-ache.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Danielle_Jones

.... You see I think the Uncle was guilty. Sometimes there just isn't a lot of evidence to go on.. And just because there isn't video footage or a signed confession doesn't mean that they're innocent.

Mods - I don't think this topic should be in latest news.... It's interesting to discuss these different cases though so perhaps they could be moved somewhere else....

I also think Ian Huntley was stitched up for murdering those two little girls, I think he was mentally tortured, everything about that case was wrong.

http://www.justjustice.org/

I'm not sure if that's the same link as someone else posted because I didn't read them yet but this one is a good read.

I see Aquila over the road was having a go at a member JRob, about him thinking Huntley may be innocent, saying does he think everyone in the jury was too thick to understand things does she not read bennetts posts on the man found guilty for Jill Dandos murder and put in jail for years before being released.

Bloodhound wrote:I also think Ian Huntley was stitched up for murdering those two little girls, I think he was mentally tortured, everything about that case was wrong.

http://www.justjustice.org/

I'm not sure if that's the same link as someone else posted because I didn't read them yet but this one is a good read.

I read that piece the other day Bloodhound. It certainly does make a good case for things not being as we were told. Huntley will go down in history as one of the most reviled murderers, but what chills me to the bone is the suggestion that the police did some kind of deal with a serial killer. Imagine if that was true. A serial killer is a psychopath by nature. You cannot do deals with them. To believe they would stop killing in lieu of prosecution is like asking an alcoholic not to drink.
They have no empathy and therefore no concept of their own fallibility.

poster wrote:I tend to believe the author of the articles in the links above. That there were a number of false convictions relating to the cases mentioned. Ian Huntley in particular stands out, imo. But also Stuart Campbell (the Danielle Jones case) a case I was muddling up with the April Jones case. I don't think there is a shred of evidence that Stuart Campbell was responsible for the disappearance of Danielle Jones and it was the interviews with him and what he said and his body language that convinced me of that he was innocent.

In terms of the April Jones case, while Whiting's history is not exactly blemish-free

Roy Whiting had nothing to do with the April Jones case

I've merged the topic on Ian Huntley with the conspiracy theory one.

Of course, Roy Whiting was convicted (rightly as far as I'm concerned) of killing Sarah Payne in 2000.

PMR wrote:

poster wrote:I tend to believe the author of the articles in the links above. That there were a number of false convictions relating to the cases mentioned. Ian Huntley in particular stands out, imo. But also Stuart Campbell (the Danielle Jones case) a case I was muddling up with the April Jones case. I don't think there is a shred of evidence that Stuart Campbell was responsible for the disappearance of Danielle Jones and it was the interviews with him and what he said and his body language that convinced me of that he was innocent.

In terms of the April Jones case, while Whiting's history is not exactly blemish-free

Roy Whiting had nothing to do with the April Jones case

I think 'Poster' means the Sarah Payne case...

Unless she believes that Mark Bridger is innocent as well.

I am beginning to wonder if Poster thinks that there is anyone who has ever been rightly convicted!

I'm not sure if anyone has heard of this one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Watson

And a bit more...

http://www.freescottwatson.org/

.... Speaking of conspiracy theories.

Just seen this on Sky News now:

http://news.sky.com/story/fbi-gives-up-on-solving-1970s-plane-hijacking-10499992

The DB Cooper case has always fascinated and intrigued me over the years.

Andrew wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Danielle_Jones

.... You see I think the Uncle was guilty. Sometimes there just isn't a lot of evidence to go on.. And just because there isn't video footage or a signed confession doesn't mean that they're innocent.

Mods - I don't think this topic should be in latest news.... It's interesting to discuss these different cases though so perhaps they could be moved somewhere else....

I think I'm muddling this one up with another high profile case where the step-father was convicted and where I watched an interview during which he spoke about the last time he saw her and spoke to her and in which his body language and words used seemed congruent with a man who had nothing to hide.

Freedom wrote:I am beginning to wonder if Poster thinks that there is anyone who has ever been rightly convicted!

Ha!

I got a few cases muddled up. But essentially I agree with what is written in the justjustice link. That is pretty much where I got the information from. But apologies for muddling up cases.

Freedom wrote:I am beginning to wonder if Poster thinks that there is anyone who has ever been rightly convicted!

Levi Bellfield should have been locked away years ago. It's astonishing how many crimes he went on to commit.

Bloodhound wrote:I see Aquila over the road was having a go at a member JRob, about him thinking Huntley may be innocent, saying does he think everyone in the jury was too thick to understand things  does she not read bennetts posts on the man found guilty for Jill Dandos murder and put in jail for years before being released.

That's me but for some reason I can't log on over there any more. Perhaps I have been banned again, lol!

Still, there is no point in arguing with the snippy one.

It's not so much that juries are too thick to understand things, it's more that they are human and can be heavily swayed by emotive arguments. Court lawyers make a living by arguing a case and they can and do use very clever, emotive, suggestive language to sway the jurers.

Court appointed defence lawyers are not always in the same league and of course their pay masters are the state so they might not necessarily always be impartial. Or they might just be weak and not a match for the prosecution. This is what I think happened in the Ian Huntley case

The case I was muddling up with Danielle Jones was the case of Tia Sharp. If you watch her step-father in interviews I think he comes across as genuine and not deceptive. There is an interview where he talks about the last time he saw her and spoke to her. He remembers exactly what they talked about and his recall is very clear. Which is what you would expect as it would subsequently have become a highly-charged and emotional moment.

Contrast his straight-talking with no stumbling/hesitation/awkward nose rubbing or ear rubbing with the body language of the McCanns when they talk about the last time they saw Madeleine. Both Kate and Gerry over-egg the pudding. Gerry claims he admired her as she lay sleeping at his 9pm check on Thursday evening which I think is a very obvious lie. A truthful answer would be more factual not embellished, imo. Kate claims that Madeleine told her at bed-time on Thursday evening that she had had the best day ever or something like that. Again, I think this is over-embellishment.

Contrast this with Tia Sharp's step-father's recall of the the last conversation he had with Tia. He does not over-egg or over-embellish but remembers the minutiae of the conversation which was quite everyday and humdrum.

In short, I think the Soham convictions were unsound.

I think the Sarah Payne conviction is unsound.

And I think the Tia Sharp conviction is unsound.

Just look at the forensics and also the dog findings in the Soham case and the case of Tia Sharp. Police dogs did not get agitated around Ian Huntley shortly after he allegedly murdered the two girls. German Shepherd dogs that went into Tia Sharp's house did not detect the 5 day old corpse. The police didn't find the body during their first searcch.

The doesn't appear to be any controversy surrounding the April Jones case. Mark Bridger must have gone to great lengths to get rid of the body. Which reminds me of another case where no body has yet been found and I doubt ever will be.

"Find the body and prove we killed her."

Also another case where the dogs haven't lied, imo.


http://truthseeker444.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/tia-blog-stuart-hazell-at-this-stage-is.html

http://www.justjustice.org/cheshire.html

Will read those links later but the 'Step-Grandfather',(Stuart Hazell) imo is absolutely guilty.

The barsteward!!!