Fund accounts to March 2014

margaret wrote:

Resistor wrote:Yes, it would be as it is a legitimate business expense.

Wonder what the rules are for their 'business' since you have to register for VAT if you go over £81,000 turnover, does their income of donations count as proper income?

Not for VAT as nothing of value has been added to it. However I don't see any Gift Aid listed separately, meaning that their "donations" could well be anything up to another 25% on top of what is actually listed, if the people donating money have signed a Gift Aid form. Where is the Gift Aid recorded?

Resistor wrote:

margaret wrote:

Resistor wrote:Yes, it would be as it is a legitimate business expense.

Wonder what the rules are for their 'business' since you have to register for VAT if you go over £81,000 turnover, does their income of donations count as proper income?

Not for VAT as nothing of value has been added to it.  However I don't see any Gift Aid listed separately, meaning that their "donations" could well be anything up to another 25% on top of what is actually listed, if the people donating money have signed a Gift Aid form.  Where is the Gift Aid recorded?

Can you gift aid to private limited companies or is it just charities? I don't know but would have thought that it's just charities. What I do know is that you wouldn't expect to seeing mention of VAT in the accounts because VAT is accounted for via quarterly VAT returns, which aren't public

AndyB wrote:

Resistor wrote:

margaret wrote:

Resistor wrote:Yes, it would be as it is a legitimate business expense.

Wonder what the rules are for their 'business' since you have to register for VAT if you go over £81,000 turnover, does their income of donations count as proper income?

Not for VAT as nothing of value has been added to it.  However I don't see any Gift Aid listed separately, meaning that their "donations" could well be anything up to another 25% on top of what is actually listed, if the people donating money have signed a Gift Aid form.  Where is the Gift Aid recorded?

Can you gift aid to private limited companies or is it just charities? I don't know but would have thought that it's just charities. What I do know is that you wouldn't expect to seeing mention of VAT in the accounts because VAT is accounted for via quarterly VAT returns, which aren't public

That's true, they may not qualify for Gift Aid.  You would see VAT in the accounts if payments to HMRC are owed or are owing at the end of the year.  They would be listed on the balance sheet as creditors or debtors. Plus their VAT registration number should be listed on their documents and their website.

Resistor wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Resistor wrote:

margaret wrote:

Resistor wrote:Yes, it would be as it is a legitimate business expense.

Wonder what the rules are for their 'business' since you have to register for VAT if you go over £81,000 turnover, does their income of donations count as proper income?

Not for VAT as nothing of value has been added to it.  However I don't see any Gift Aid listed separately, meaning that their "donations" could well be anything up to another 25% on top of what is actually listed, if the people donating money have signed a Gift Aid form.  Where is the Gift Aid recorded?

Can you gift aid to private limited companies or is it just charities? I don't know but would have thought that it's just charities. What I do know is that you wouldn't expect to seeing mention of VAT in the accounts because VAT is accounted for via quarterly VAT returns, which aren't public

That's true, they may not qualify for Gift Aid.  You would see VAT in the accounts if payments to HMRC are owed or are owing at the end of the year.  They would be listed on the balance sheet as creditors or debtors.  Plus their VAT registration number should be listed on their documents and their website.

I'm pretty sure VAT doesn't appear in the accounts regardless of whether it's outstanding or not but I'll check.

The VAT number certainly needs to appear on invoices that include VAT but I'm not sure about other documents, I don't think it does but again I'll check

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.
Even not for profit companies must register if over the threshold as per gov website.

When you are in business

You are in business when, for example:
• you earn an income by carrying on a trade, vocation or profession; whether by being self-employed or through another entity such as a limited company
• you provide membership benefits as a club, association or similar body in return for a subscription or other form of payment
• you provide certain other activities as a club or other recreational body, charity or other non-profit making body
• when you charge admission to a premises

To be in business, these activities must have a degree of frequency and scale and be continued over a period of time.

OK, I emailed my wife who is MAAT qualified. My questions and her response are below

True or false: VAT never appears in company accounts even if its owed to HMRC?
True

Does your VAT registration number need to appear on any documents (like letter heads for example) apart from invoices that include VAT?
It is not a legal requirement but is common practice. LTD companies must have their company reg number on

chirpyinsect wrote:

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.

Is that a quote from a website or your own personal belief? If the former can you supply a link, if the latter I think you might be getting confused with the company registration number

I have raised this before.

A limited company with a turnover above a certain amount has to register for vat.

The company will invoice for payment for services or sales and will add and collect vat.

The company will have to pay for products bought,including vat, and the same for services obtained.

So if the company sold rights to book for example, it would have to invoice for that including vat, even if zero rated. I don't know if that is the case or not.

If the company bought the rights to the book from an individual, a payment would have to be recorded.

I really do not understand how a company can book a donation. I don't see how the company can sell the book. Maybe Enid will explain.

Any advice ??

Andy B, maybe you ask about donations ?

http://www.companybug.com/register-for-vat/

VAT registration for limited companies – when and how?
June 17, 2014
When your company turnover reaches the ‘VAT threshold’ (currently £81,000) in a twelve month period, you must register for VAT. Even if you don’t, there may be professional reasons why you would want to register anyway. ...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/bim41810.htm

Enid O'Dowds analysis of accounts March 2014: http://mccannfiles.com/id232.html

Scroll down a bit.

Châtelaine wrote:Enid O'Dowds analysis of accounts March 2014: http://mccannfiles.com/id232.html

Scroll down a bit.

I was missing the nub in my post above.

My puzzle is this,

How does a limited company take a 400,000 pound donation?

Does that mean no vat invoice rendered to donor ? If it is book related, it is a payment for something.

I just don't get it.

AndyB wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.

Is that a quote from a website or your own personal belief? If the former can you supply a link, if the latter I think you might be getting confused with the company registration number

You are quite correct in that for a limited company the VAT no does not have to be on all paperwork but must be on all invoices and receipts. Apologies.
From the following link

http://www.stationery-direct.co.uk/
Do I have to display my VAT number?

Your VAT number does not have anything to do with being a limited company, however, this question is also asked frequently so I thought I would answer it here. The answer is no, there is no law to say that you must display your VAT number on your stationery, however, it must be displayed on a VAT invoice or VAT receipt. If you are VAT registered then displaying a VAT number on your stationery looks professional in our opinion.

AndyB wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.

Is that a quote from a website or your own personal belief? If the former can you supply a link, if the latter I think you might be getting confused with the company registration number

No, it is not my "personal belief" and no, I am not getting confused. I worked as a Joint Venture Cost Accountant for a major oil company for almost 20 years.

Thetruth wrote:

Châtelaine wrote:Enid O'Dowds analysis of accounts March 2014: http://mccannfiles.com/id232.html

Scroll down a bit.

I was missing the nub in my post above.

My puzzle is this,

How does a limited company take a 400,000 pound donation?

Does that mean no vat invoice rendered to donor ? If it is book related, it is a payment for something.

I just don't get it.

I suspect it's just cash introduced as you would at company formation. E.g. Mortgage the house to buy equipment and the money goes to you but you need it in the company for the tax relief (if it isn't in the company the equipment will belong to you). This money hasn't be accounted for otherwise you'd never reconcile what's in the bank with the accounts so the accounting entry usually just reads "cash introduced". I suspect they've used "donation" in this case toothy and portray the fund as a charity rather than a business.

There's no VAT because there's nothing to add VAT to

Talking of mortgaging the house to give money to the business an evil but interesting thought occurs to me. Is it possible that the McCanns, mindful of their likely ruin over costs in the libel trial (and the still outstanding costs of the book banning attempt) have mortgaged their biggest asset to stop GA getting his hands on the equity. If they did this they would need to put it somewhere where it would be ring-fenced away and couldn't be got at by people trying to enforce payment. What better place then the fund

AndyB wrote:OK, I emailed my wife who is MAAT qualified. My questions and her response are below

True or false: VAT never appears in company accounts even if its owed to HMRC?
True

Does your VAT registration number need to appear on any documents (like letter heads for example) apart from invoices that include VAT?
It is not a legal requirement but is common practice. LTD companies must have their company reg number on

It appears if the company in question is producing cash-flow statements or anything that uses current cost accounting.

Resistor wrote:

AndyB wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.

Is that a quote from a website or your own personal belief? If the former can you supply a link, if the latter I think you might be getting confused with the company registration number

No, it is not my "personal belief" and no, I am not getting confused.  I worked as a Joint Venture Cost Accountant for a major oil company for almost 20 years.

Now I'm getting confused! It was Chirpy who made the first comment but Resistor has answered AndyB.

Yeah, I noticed that too ...

So it was, sorry

From Enid O'Dowd's analysis:

Income is significantly up over the previous year because Dr Kate McCann has donated a further £400,000 'for the direct costs of the search for and the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine'. This appears under the heading Restricted Funds. She made a donation of £738,487 in the year ended 31 March 2012, £550,000 of which was allocated to Restricted Funds and the balance £188,487 was included in the total of £306,393 under Unrestricted Funds. The total donated by her to the Fund is now £1,138,487: £950,000 under Restricted Funds and £188,487 under Unrestricted Funds.

It is not obvious why Dr McCann donated this additional substantial sum at this time. At the end of the previous accounting year there was £441,169 in the bank according to the Balance Sheet and creditors at that date were only £29,515.

Theoretically, if Kate wanted to protect her money from lawyers fees could she do it by donating the cash to the fund with the restriction that it can only be used for the search and investigation? The lawyers can't claim that money from the fund because its usage is restricted and they can't claim it from Kate because she no longer has it. Then, at some point in the future when the fund is closed, could the outstanding restricted balance be returned to Kate because it hasn't been spent?

AndyB wrote: [...]
Talking of mortgaging the house to give money to the business an evil but interesting thought occurs to me. Is it possible that the McCanns, mindful of their likely ruin over costs in the libel trial (and the still outstanding costs of the book banning attempt) have mortgaged their biggest asset to stop GA getting his hands on the equity. If they did this they would need to put it somewhere where it would be ring-fenced away and couldn't be got at by people trying to enforce payment. What better place then the fund

***
An interesting thought, indeed, AndyB
Same would count for income of the book IMO

ETA @ Poe
Yes, in the same line of thinking.

I noticed that too, I am also a bit confused.

I qualified as ACCA in 1988, although I wasn't even aware it was a competition. Happy now?

Resistor wrote:

AndyB wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

If you are registered for VAT all company paperwork must include your VAT reg no including headed paper, invoices, compliment slips, business cards etc.

Is that a quote from a website or your own personal belief? If the former can you supply a link, if the latter I think you might be getting confused with the company registration number

No, it is not my "personal belief" and no, I am not getting confused.  I worked as a Joint Venture Cost Accountant for a major oil company for almost 20 years.

I was quoting Chirpyinsect not you

Where is AndyB's  last post it just seems to have vanished?

Resistor wrote:I qualified as ACCA in 1988, although I wasn't even aware it was a competition.  Happy now?

Then you know that the Vat number doesn't need to be on all documentation and I'm completely at a loss as to why you're arguing with me. What do you disagree with?