The killing of Karen Buckley and the role played by dogs in identifying the person responsible

I have just been reading the timeline of this young woman's disappearance and am interested in the stance of the police telling news repeatedly that the last person to see her alive is not a suspect at this stage.

Drove her to his home at approx. 1 am.
She left  "presumably to walk home" at approx. 4 am.
Pitch dark, not in a taxi and no offer to drive her home in the car used to take her to his place apparently. Maybe he was over the limit, maybe the young woman walked as she was short of money..... and he had none for a taxi either.
All plausible, but how likely?
Her handbag was found in a park by dog-walkers it seems, not on the ground but in a waste bin, so placed there by a 3rd party.

This man could be innocent of any crime involving this young woman, but I somehow find the repetition of " not suspect " suspicious. It has now become " not a suspect at this stage."
The police are using this phrase when imo the exact opposite might be the truth, as I believe could be the case with Madeleine. Saying nothing, or something which will not give away the true state of affairs.
The police are telling media that there is hope Karen will be found safe and well. I hope this is the case, however,given the circumstances, given the days that have passed, given that dogs are being used and that there are forensic officers present, I think sadly that there will be a bad outcome here which police are expecting and my thoughts are with her parents.

btw.... a photo of this man is on the news.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32313895

It's the first time I've heard of this case.

The outcome doesn't look good.

Russian Doll, you have read my mind!

This guy has to be a suspect.  he claims they had consensual sex - after presumably he chatted her up in the queue for the loo and she decided to go to his place without even telling her friends she'd met someone and was going off with him. If the sex was consensual why not stay there til daylight, have a leisurely breakfast, then some more sex?

While its possible as you say RD that she didn't have enough money for a taxi and he's had more drink in his flat and couldn't drive, she wasn't that far from where she lived, a taxi wouldnt cost a fortune and surely he could have contributed to the taxi fare. She could also have woken up her flatmates to borrow from them to pay the taxi. they mightn't have been pleased to be woken up at 4am but there way ways to deal with a lack of money.

I agree that the police are being creative with the truth - wonder what our new member petermac thinks about this?

The police will have asked her friends many questions to ascertain the plausibility of this man's account of events. Depending on how long they have known her and been going out with her to bars and clubs.

e.g.  Was she drunk / slightly drunk/ sober?
        is she usually   "   "   "   "  "  "    " ?

        Does she normally allow herself to be chatted up by strangers?  Has she ever left you to go off with a man, whether a stranger or known to her, and especially not telling you that she was leaving?
How many times have you gone out as a group but not gone home all together?

if she left to go elsewhere, would you expect her to stay in touch to tell you where she was, who with and when she would be home?
Was it your habit as a group to take taxis or public transport? Or to walk a distance in the dark?

How far is your home from this man's flat? Given the time mentioned, would she be likely to walk, especially as she had left her jacket at the club?

 Was she safety aware? Not only has she allegedly left a flat to walk home in the dark, she has apparently gone willingly to the home of a stranger and had consensual sex. Is this in character, from her awareness of safety?
Have you as a group or has she to your knowledge, ever got into a car with someone she does not know?

Again, had she taken any drugs or drink which might have clouded her judgment?
Did any of you leave drinks on a table which might have been spiked?

Did you see her speak to this man [ show photo] inside the club?

eta.... could be the case that there was a misunderstanding re sex and that she left in a hurry and something untoward happened to her involving a 3rd party on her way home. No one knows if she had any drink or drugs after arriving at this man's place. Maybe unlikely as it is, she HAS walked home alone in the dark, in a fluster and upset, angry at him or herself...it will all be revealed soon imo. Or maybe they were both daft re the ride home issue and he was selfish enough not to walk her home and she has met with someone en route who did her harm. All very sad.

I think her drink was spiked in some way.

She didn't even collect her jacket and it would have been quite chilly around midnight. I read that she had lived away from home before. She was 24 and not a 17 year old in her first week away from home attending her first night club.

I do believe they will find the body soon. Her poor parents; she was their only daughter.

Last I heard, the Police were checking out a silver car that looked suspicious. But the car was on the road to Drymen, on Loch Lomond! That's miles away from Glasgow, I know that road well, it's very isolated and out the back of beyond! It's all very strange.

A 21 yo man has been arrested - http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/karen-buckley-disappearance-live-updates-from-glasgow-324108.html

Ms Buckley's own flat was in the area of the club -4 miles from the flat she allegedly went to. Yet rather than go to her own place with this man she went all that way....and then started a 4 mile walk home at 4 am ?
Did anyone see her with this man or were they just caught on CCTV?

Something doesn't add up.

breaking news that police are following a def line of enquiry.

The man she left with, Pacteau, is aged 21. Like I said, take those not a suspect words with a big pinch of salt. They mean nothing.

ETA  SKY SOURCES STATING THAT THE DETAINED MAN IS INDEED 21 YR OLD ALEXANDER PACTEAU.

AND NOT A MENTION BY SCOTTISH BB1 OVER AT THE COVEN ABOUT A YOUNG WOMAN MISSING IN GLASGOW.
STRANGE UNTIL YOU CONSIDER THAT THE MAN THE POLICE HAVE REF TO AS " NOT A SUSPECT " ALL DAY HAS JUST BEEN ARRESTED.

SO REDWOOD'S WORDS WHEN QUESTIONED MEANT NOTHING. AS MOST RATIONAL PEOPLE BELIEVED.

Neither her parents nor their friends are suspects or persons of interest.

So why are they searching a golf course in Milngavie when his flat is in Drumchapel, that's about 6 or 7 miles away.

Because a car was seen in that area. In police jargon, often harsh, there is the killing site and the dumping site. They have already searched sheds and land close to his home, including areas in front of and behind his block of flats -there were photos shown earlier.

Russian Doll wrote:The man she left with, Pacteau, is aged 21. Like I said, take those not a suspect words with a big pinch of salt. They mean nothing.

ETA  SKY SOURCES STATING THAT THE DETAINED MAN IS INDEED 21 YR OLD ALEXANDER PACTEAU.

Not sounding good, but isn't surprising from the little I've read about the case. One thing I'd like to mention is earlier on in this case, it was stated by police that AP wasn't a suspect and now...........

Where have I heard that before!?

@ Resistor. I've read that AP's mother lives in Drymen. Can't possibly say if this, the grey car and the golf course are linked though.

from twitter

  Georgie Keate ‏@georgiekeate  · 5m5 minutes ago  
Two emergency planning and incident support police vans arrive at High Craigton farm near Glasgow #KarenBuckley


Resistor.... this was in a local newspaper [bold mine]

Police appealed for help tracing the driver of a grey car seen in rural areas around Milngavie and Drymen between 11am and 3pm on Monday.

Kerr said they had received several calls reporting suspicious activity in and around the north of the city.

He said: “We are keen to trace a grey car. We don’t know the model or the make, but this was apparently seen on country roads between Milngavie and Drymen.”

Meanwhile, Pacteau’s neighbours in Dorchester Avenue said detectives had been asking questions about a silver car parked outside the flat. It was later towed away.

IT student Louis Kolodziej said: “The police first turned up around 6pm on Monday.

“They taped off a silver car and asked me if I knew anything about it and whether I had seen anything strange in the early hours of Sunday.

“The police then came back a few hours later and were asking more about the car.

“Forensics guys in white suits then turned up and started looking at the vehicle and it was towed away at around 4am on Tuesday.”

Drymen is a very small village, about 1000 people at most; they're mainly farmers and everybody knows everybody else.  It's not an obvious place to go committing crimes!  But the golf course is very isolated and that place has been chosen by somebody who is familiar with the area, IMHO. It reminds me of Rosdeep Kular, who took her dead son's body to Kirkcaldy and hid it in woodlands that backed on to her old family home. Same sort of thing; about 10 miles away from her residence, fairly isolated and chosen because she knew the area well.

Resistor wrote:Drymen is a very small village, about 1000 people at most; they're mainly farmers and everybody knows everybody else.  It's not an obvious place to go committing crimes!  But the golf course is very isolated and that place has been chosen by somebody who is familiar with the area, IMHO.  It reminds me of Rosdeep Kular, who took her dead son's body to Kirkcaldy and hid it in woodlands that backed on to her old family home.  Same sort of thing; about 10 miles away from her residence, fairly isolated and chosen because she knew the area well.

It sounds so horrible, but from what we know so far, it all seems so awfully predictable.

Police said Human Remains have been found at a farm in north Glasgow following a 4 day search. Formal identification of the remains has not yet taken place they said.

Thoughts with the family.

Very sad news indeed.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/familys-heartbreak-as-students-body-found/ar-AAb6xWi?ocid=mailsignoutmd

It is now confirmed that the missing student has been found dead.

This is the first time I've read what the cause of death was. It sounds horrific, plus what was done to the body.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/572743/Karen-Buckley-Alexander-Pacteau-Glasgow-Sheriff-Court

Sick, imagine hearing that about your only daughter

Is Scottish law different,why is this not kept secret until the trial?

Causes of death aren't kept secret under English law.

A recent example - it has been confirmed that Rebecca Watts died of suffocation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-33859134#"

Let's hope that this killer never sees the outside world again.

Probably be released before he's 40 though.

Life should always mean life. Imo.

Snipped from this very long but interesting article...........


Wednesday, August 12, 2015

CCTV and forensics led police to Karen Buckley’s killer


Again, the whole truth had yet to be revealed at what was a delicate stage of the investigation. What the gathered press were not told on that Tuesday was that Pacteau’s grey Ford Focus had already been looked over by forensic specialists, and how a victim recovery dog gave indications a body had been in the boot of the car.





http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cctv-and-forensics-led-police-to-karen-buckleys-killer-347652.html