Capabilities of the Dogs

Mimi wrote:... and this piece of clothing just happened to fall behind the settee

Do we know for certain that it was cadaver odour Eddie was signalling behind the sofa? I ask because he also signals blood. Keela signalled there too so there was def blood. There may well have been c odour too but unless Eddie signalled differently to blood than c odour, can we be sure?
Martin Grime said the EVRD dog goes in first, then the big gun, Keela. If she didn't signal but Eddie did it was cadaver odour. I took that to mean if they both signalled there was no distinction possible. Happy to be corrected though as it is important we get this right. If we have assumed a body behind the sofa all this time, and that is not necessarily the case, it opens up other ideas.
I am not saying there was no body btw, just that it may not be the sight of death.

I think because blood was only found behind the sofa in the apartment would indicate possible death at that location?
IMO

Hahaha


Ella ‏@MAIAKELLY5 · 3m3 minutes ago

Chief Shill at La La Land HQ explains Eddie's ' false' alerts #mccann #deluded #wiredtothemoon

chirpyinsect wrote:

Mimi wrote:... and this piece of clothing just happened to fall behind the settee

Do we know for certain that it was cadaver odour Eddie was signalling behind the sofa? I ask because he also signals blood. Keela signalled there too so there was def blood. There may well have been c odour too but unless Eddie signalled differently to blood than c odour, can we be sure?

Correct, Mrs CI,  both Eddie and Keela alerted behind the sofa. Eddie may have been  detecting cadaver scent, but as he also alerted to dried human blood, it may just have been blood. So a piece of clothing need not have fallen behind the sofa
The only location within 5A  where Eddie alone alerted  (which is a better indication of cadaver scent) was in the wardrobe in the master bedroom, which I imagine is  where the clothes were kept

So Eddie smelt his own death, but only around Mcs belongings ofcourse!

dogs don't lie wrote:So Eddie smelt his own death, but only around Mcs belongings ofcourse!

Yes, poor dog, as you say only there though.

dogs don't lie wrote:I think because blood was only found behind the sofa in the apartment would indicate possible death at that location?
IMO

Blood detection could well indicate that a violent act or nasty accident had taken place but it isn't proof that it did. Also if she had been injured in that spot they could have moved her before cadaver odour developed, meaning perhaps she did die there but someone moved the body or hid it inside something which was then moved. I would think that if it was accidental when someone was present, they wouldn't have left her there in case someone came to the flat. After all you couldn't rely on your friends to be complicit, if it was an accident.
I don't buy the theory that they went along with it because they were all doping their kids, or they were swingers, or collectively neglecting the kids. Even if any of the above were true, I would not have lived with the guilt and I'd have confessed years ago.
Something else binds this lot.
I am just trying to eliminate any doubts I have around her falling and lying undiscovered which I somehow doubt because I don't believe in the neglect.
People talk about the flat being cleaned but my thoughts are it could have actually been dirtied. By that I mean if M was not actually in that flat until she died, they could have cleaned up the blood, washed curtains etc then allowed various others to contaminate the place to confuse. Didn't GA talk about lots of non rooted hair about the place? I think he was bemused about it in an interview he did on PT tv.

Satsuma wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

Mimi wrote:... and this piece of clothing just happened to fall behind the settee

Do we know for certain that it was cadaver odour Eddie was signalling behind the sofa? I ask because he also signals blood. Keela signalled there too so there was def blood. There may well have been c odour too but unless Eddie signalled differently to blood than c odour, can we be sure?

Correct, Mrs CI,  both Eddie and Keela alerted behind the sofa. Eddie may have been  detecting cadaver scent, but as he also alerted to dried human blood, it may just have been blood. So a piece of clothing need not have fallen behind the sofa
The only location within 5A  where Eddie alone alerted  (which is a better indication of cadaver scent) was in the wardrobe in the master bedroom, which I imagine is  where the clothes were kept

Or the blue bag??

Satsuma wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

Mimi wrote:... and this piece of clothing just happened to fall behind the settee

Do we know for certain that it was cadaver odour Eddie was signalling behind the sofa? I ask because he also signals blood. Keela signalled there too so there was def blood. There may well have been c odour too but unless Eddie signalled differently to blood than c odour, can we be sure?

Correct, Mrs CI,  both Eddie and Keela alerted behind the sofa. Eddie may have been  detecting cadaver scent, but as he also alerted to dried human blood, it may just have been blood. So a piece of clothing need not have fallen behind the sofa
The only location within 5A  where Eddie alone alerted  (which is a better indication of cadaver scent) was in the wardrobe in the master bedroom, which I imagine is  where the clothes were kept

Not in the wardrobe but in front of it. Martin Grime explained that cadaver scent often pools in an area of a room. So it might not have been the original spot of the cadaver scent, but where it pooled.

If my memory serves me well , i have mr grimes saying ,he first sends in blood dog and he will then send in cadavor dog ,when puts his head a certain way and makes a certain bark that he had been trained to use if he smelled cadavor.nd that is what the 2nd dog did ,i think there is video film showing it happen and mr grimes spoke about it ..? joyce1938

seahorse wrote:Not in the wardrobe but in front of it. Martin Grime explained that cadaver scent often pools in an area of a room. So it might not have been the original spot of the cadaver scent, but where it pooled.

Thank you for that correction, Seahorse - much appreciated. Eddie also detected cadaver scent on the balcony and in the flower bed beneath it. We can only speculate about that, but I suppose if the clothes had been washed and hung out to dry on the balcony railings , that might account for both?

seahorse wrote: [...] Not in the wardrobe but in front of it. Martin Grime explained that cadaver scent often pools in an area of a room. So it might not have been the original spot of the cadaver scent, but where it pooled.

***
Which brings me back to one of the many theories: KM asked the blinds in the master bedroom to be repaired [GM was said to have broken the string] and at the same time needed instructions to operate the washing machine [Day 2 of a one week holiday].

Châtelaine wrote:Which brings me back to one of the many theories: KM asked the blinds in the master bedroom to be repaired [GM was said to have broken the string] and at the same time needed instructions to operate the washing machine [Day 2 of a one week holiday].

Of course everything is speculation  but I would be more interested in what Eddie found in and around the master bedroom (which had doors leading to the balcony ) than what he may have found behind the sofa

They actually interest me both [as well as Kate's clothes and the red childrens T-shirt].
Since Eddie in the master bedroom confirmed cadaver scent and it could [very likely] have "pooled", we have to bear in mind accidents like being hurt/strangled by handling a shutter string by an unsupervised child [especially in a strange environment] are unfortunately not uncommon. The twin beds were pushed together and against the patio doors & Madeleine was known to seek comfort in her parents bed/room.

There some pics around that showed that there were blood spots on wall behind sofa ,not saying how got there ,but there is a photo around showing that . The one in garden area was very mild one ,some wondered if some washing water was emptied over ,or even floor washing water been put over after cleaning ? joyce1938

How else would blood splatter get on a wall behind a sofa?

joyce1938 wrote:There some pics around that showed that there were blood spots on wall behind sofa ,not saying how got there ,but there is a photo around showing that .  The one in garden area was very mild one ,some wondered if some washing water was emptied over ,or even floor washing water been put over after cleaning ? joyce1938

Washing water on the balcony is a plausible theory, joyce,  but a few microscopic blood spots behind the sofa dosen't suggest a fatal bloodbath to me

dogs don't lie wrote:How else would blood splatter get on a wall behind a sofa?

There wasn't blood splatter behind the sofa, ddl. This photo shows where Keela found microscopic blood spots but that doesn't look like the result of a fatal accident at ground level to me

To continue on the theory of a [near] fatal accident in the master bedroom, fellow doctors may have been called to the rescue and perform a life-saving intervention with some bloodshed [behind the sofa, out of sight and later hidden by pushing the sofa against the wall] . Also, bizarrely, the cleaning woman, who came back on the Wednesday morning, found a cot in the master bedroom, suggesting that one of the children was under surveillance.

All of this, of course, in contrast with Dr. Amaral's belief that Madeleine was last seen alive and well at 5:30pm on Thursday. This case contains so many twists and contradictions, that it is not possible to have a valuable theory without knowing all the facts, which we don't know ...

Watch Eddie alert in the wardrobe area at 2 mins 7 secs in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YADIaa-a33o

Satsuma wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:How else would blood splatter get on a wall behind a sofa?

There wasn't blood splatter behind the sofa, ddl.  This photo shows where Keela found microscopic blood spots but that doesn't look like the result of a fatal accident at ground level to me

IMO, that looks like splatter to me.

Fine, so please explain how someone can die by firing a dozen microscopic  and widely spaced blood spots onto a wall
Chatelaine -  if an accident occurred in the master bedroom why would emergency treatment be carried out behind a sofa in the lounge?  And why would it be done behind a sofa anyway?

I never said someone died because of the blood splatter, but isn't this how Goncalo came to his possible conclusion?

Châtelaine wrote:To continue on the theory of a [near] fatal accident in the master bedroom, fellow doctors may have been called to the rescue and perform a life-saving intervention with some bloodshed [behind the sofa, out of sight and later hidden by pushing the sofa against the wall] . Also, bizarrely, the cleaning woman, who came back on the Wednesday morning, found a cot in the master bedroom, suggesting that one of the children was under surveillance.

All of this, of course, in contrast with Dr. Amaral's belief that Madeleine was last seen alive and well at 5:30pm on Thursday. This case contains so many twists and contradictions, that it is not possible to have a valuable theory without knowing all the facts, which we don't know ...

Agree Chátelaine, an example being last night with the 3 shadows with a bag entering the church.

I too agree, , we really dont know how the splatters got onto wall and back of settee i think some where. \Just made me realize once that was seen ,it might be reason that first blood detecter dog goes in first and barks its bark,the one that it has been trained to find .Next the other dog goes in and looks for what he has been trained for and lets mr grimes know ,that he has found just that . It doesnt have to mean that both may not notice others work ,just trained to do what needs to be done . nothing has been set in stone ,we only can look and see what we can.joyce1938