Capabilities of the Dogs

Wasn't it Gonçalo Amaral who mentioned it but some samples were destroyed? Not sure, but no one should feel under any pressure time ways by any one!

costello wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:Cadaver scent in the car was very risky, but when it comes with fluids consistent with frozen cadaver it's hard to ignore.

Please would someone post a link to any official document that states there were body fluids in the boot? You've got one hour starting now...
Many thanks, Sat

What I find hilarious is that you don't seem to realise how stupid you come across to members here. Thank goodness this thread is not available
to 'guests' goodness knows what they would think.

I don't care how stupid I come across to other members, I care about facts
Now where is the official report stating that body fluids were found in the boot of the Scenic?
Body fluids that are not blood
Just over 20 minutes until the buzzer goes.... keep trying folks!

Clue - don't waste too much time looking because you won't find one. 15 minutes left for those who want to try!

Satsuma wrote:

costello wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:Cadaver scent in the car was very risky, but when it comes with fluids consistent with frozen cadaver it's hard to ignore.

Please would someone post a link to any official document that states there were body fluids in the boot? You've got one hour starting now...
Many thanks, Sat

What I find hilarious is that you don't seem to realise how stupid you come across to members here. Thank goodness this thread is not available
to 'guests' goodness knows what they would think.

I don't care how stupid I come across to other members, I care about facts
Now where is the official report stating that body fluids were found in the boot of the Scenic?
Body fluids that are not blood
Just over 20 minutes until the buzzer goes.... keep trying folks!

It won't take you long to check the files, or are you so lazy. I do believe you may find the answers to some questions other members have previously asked which you have casually ignored. To be honest I don't know why I bother, it's so easy to work out what your game plan is,
but it's not working.

Satsuma wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:Cadaver scent in the car was very risky, but when it comes with fluids consistent with frozen cadaver it's hard to ignore.

Please would someone post a link to any official document that states there were body fluids in the boot? You've got one hour starting now...
Many thanks, Sat

From the PJ files, where cellular material could of course be from body fluids:

An attempt to obtain a DNA profile from any cellular material recovered from one area of the plastic luggage component (286C/2007-CRL(10(2))) from the motor vehicle was unsuccessful in that no DNA profiles were obtained.

A low level mixed DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least two people was obtained from a second area of the plastic luggage component (286C/2007-CRL(10(2))) from the motor vehicle. In my opinion this result is too complex to interpret at this stage.

A low level mixed DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the fibre coated luggage component (286C/2007-CRL(10(1))) from the motor vehicle. In my opinion this result is too complex to interpret at this stage.

A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card (286C/2007-CRL(12)). This sample has not been sent for further testing using LCN DNA profiling tests.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm


Where does the frozen come from though? Can't find it in the PJ files.

Well if you slightly change the wording from bodily fluids to cellular material, then yes there was.

ETA - Seahorse beat me to it.

Satsuma wrote:Clue - don't waste too much time looking because you won't find one. 15 minutes left for those who want to try!

***
You may not have read other threads, where I said that I have full faith in the dogs, but do doubt [as they did], about the car. Not that I don't believe them, but I'm not 100% convinced.

Now, GM, please, leave it. It's not going to help you much ;-)
There's so much more ...

But cellular material could be eg skin

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

Yes, but it could also be fluid.

You'll need to cross reference it on the same page and see what it really was.

You have 10 minutes

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

***
Cannot chose between laughing, weeping and raving ...

Time up!
The facts:
Swabs of cellular material were found in the car, on the back of the sofa, on the curtains, all over the place. See Seahorse's link. As you would expect - skin and other human stuff gets everywhere
None of this was shown to be fluids from a corpse
Eddie and Keela both reacted in the boot of the Scenic, so in that case Eddie may have been alerting to dried blood
There is nothing to suggest that a body had been in the boot
Chatelaine, I too have complete faith in the dogs but their responses have to be interpreted correctly

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

For someone who seems to come across as being a mr/mrs know it all, you really don't have a clue do you. So sad, keep reading the files, you might just catch up eventually.
And remember there is still a lot of 'material' that has not been made available to us ....
yet.

Châtelaine wrote:

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

***
Cannot chose between laughing, weeping and raving ...

I can't stop laughing Chatelaine, Satsuma is indeed a tonic.

Satsuma wrote:Time up!
The facts:
Swabs of cellular material were found in the car, on the back of the sofa, on the curtains, all over the place. See Seahorse's link. As you would expect - skin and other human stuff gets everywhere
None of this was shown to be fluids from a corpse
Eddie and Keela both reacted in the boot of the Scenic, so in that case Eddie may have been alerting to dried blood
There is nothing to suggest that a body had been in the boot
Chatelaine, I too have complete faith in the dogs but their responses have to be interpreted correctly

All the samples I mentioned earlier:
286C/2007-CRL(10(2) from the motor vehicle was unsuccessful in that no DNA profiles were obtained.
286C/2007-CRL(10(2) from the motor vehicle. In my opinion this result is too complex to interpret at this stage.
286C/2007-CRL(10(1) recovered from the fibre coated luggage component ())) from the motor vehicle. In my opinion this result is too complex to interpret at this stage.

came from this:

10. Parts of the vehicle luggage area

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------

If it was just hairs or nails they would have been picked off individually.

Instead they sent whole parts off to FSS. Most likely fluid, but skin cells can't be ruled out.

Not that it matters, because all profiling was inconclusive.

costello wrote:

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

For someone who seems to come across as being a mr/mrs know it all, you really don't have a clue do you.

I don't need clues because I already have the facts
Eddie and Keela may have indicated blood in the boot of the Scenic but there is no evidence of fluids from a corpse
Fluids perhaps (remember blood is a body fluid)
But not body fluids from a frozen corpse
I have no idea where that story came from
It isn't in the PJ Files

Satsuma wrote:Time up!
The facts:
Swabs of cellular material were found in the car, on the back of the sofa, on the curtains, all over the place. See Seahorse's link. As you would expect - skin and other human stuff gets everywhere
None of this was shown to be fluids from a corpse
Eddie and Keela both reacted in the boot of the Scenic, so in that case Eddie may have been alerting to dried blood
There is nothing to suggest that a body had been in the boot
Chatelaine, I too have complete faith in the dogs but their responses have to be interpreted correctly

Now where have I seen all these points raised before by another member (and certainly not
Seahorse) hmm......interesting. Must go and check.

and why would that be so important when all of the points are true?

Satsuma wrote:and why would that be so important when all of the points are true?

Was that directed at me, I'm still putting together the finer pieces of the jigsaw, will get back to you when I'ts complete.

Satsuma wrote:

costello wrote:

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

For someone who seems to come across as being a mr/mrs know it all, you really don't have a clue do you.

I don't need clues because I already have the facts
Eddie and Keela may have indicated blood in the boot of the Scenic but there is no evidence of fluids from a corpse
Fluids perhaps (remember blood is a body fluid)
But not body fluids from a frozen corpse
I have no idea where that story came from
It isn't in the PJ Files

From Goncalo:

"The cadaver was frozen"

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk's right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it's the only way to explain what happened there.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

Satsuma wrote:

costello wrote:

Satsuma wrote:But cellular material could be eg skin

For someone who seems to come across as being a mr/mrs know it all, you really don't have a clue do you.

I don't need clues because I already have the facts
Eddie and Keela may have indicated blood in the boot of the Scenic but there is no evidence of fluids from a corpse
Fluids perhaps (remember blood is a body fluid)
But not body fluids from a frozen corpse
I have no idea where that story came from
It isn't in the PJ Files

The lead detective on the case thinks that Madeleine's body was frozen or kept cold. I'm sure he was far more 'facts' than you do.

Snipped from link below:

“The cadaver was frozen”

Correio da Manhã - What do you think happened to the body?

Gonçalo Amaral – Everything indicated that the body, after having been at a certain location, was moved into another location by car, twenty something days later. With the residues that were found inside the car, the little girl had to have been transported inside it.

How can you state that?

Due to the type of fluid, we policemen, experts, say that the cadaver was frozen or preserved in the cold and when placed into the car boot, with the heat at that time [of the year], part of the ice melted. On a curb, for example, something fell from the trunk’s right side, above the wheel. It may be said that this is speculation, but it’s the only way to explain what happened there.

If the body was hidden in the beach area first, was it always out of reach for the searches?

The beach was searched at a time when it is not known whether the body was still there. Using dogs, but sniffer dogs have limitations, like the salted water, for example. Later on, it may have been removed.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2008/07/interview-with-gonalo-amaral-cadaver.html

Just been reading the John Lowe report in the PJ Files.

'Inconclusive' is his middle name. After he got 'nobbled' a bit (IMO).

Would love to have seen another report from somebody else from somewhere else.

IMO - It wouldn't be quite 'inconclusive'.

Satsuma wrote:and why would that be so important when all of the points are true?

I love the dogs,GM hates the dogs.

Great minds think alike Dee Coy...

poster wrote:Great minds think alike Dee Coy...

Acidic voices fall silent...

Sat sometimes it's not what you say it is the way you say it. I have posted many many times on the dogs.....yours to read for free as have most on here. I'm not playing your macho fu#kwit games. Blood bodily fluid who knows......Gerry and Kate know......it worried them and John Geraghty enough to do their own tests. In the end they may not even matter to the outcome as you certainly won't. It could even be the hairs they also found .......