Re: Capabilities of the Dogs

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:11 am

Bampots wrote:Listen what it mentions is Madeleine's DNA in the boot of the car

DNA doesn't necessarily come from corpses, your DNA will be all over your house and I assume you aren't dead yet

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:13 am

chirpyinsect wrote:And my point about where a body would be stored remains unanswered.

If there was no residue from a corpse in the boot, a body (if there was one) could have been anywhere

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:13 am

AndyB wrote:
Satsuma wrote:But a DNA match (even if it is true) doesn't have to come from a corpse. DNA could come from anything touched by the person whose DNA it is
Only if in touching some (e.g.) sweat was deposited. DNA has to come from a body - its the building blocks that make every cell in our bodies. You seem to be conflating DNA and fingerprints

No I'm not. And you've answered your own point in your first sentence

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:15 am

chirpyinsect wrote:And how to explain how transferred dna would get in the wheel arch?

I think those dog alerts were explained by the proximity of the wheel arch to the pocket in the door trim, where a key with blood on it had been. It's in the files
In any case, you wouldn't put a corpse in a wheel arch

Bampots Wed 18 May 2016, 9:17 am

Can we have a link please to where they say it was transference from fob to boot!?

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:18 am

No, because I didn't say that

costello Wed 18 May 2016, 9:27 am

Andrew wrote:Speaking of John Lowe again.... Is it just me that finds it odd that he was entrusted with the McCann case and appeared to have the final word on everything....

In the world of science then he was literally a 'whippersnapper'.

Maybe it's just me then. I suppose I just expected and assumed in my own head, that John Lowe was some old chap, perhaps nearing retirement age but with a wealth of 40 years of experience behind him. Top of his game and the Number 1 expert on this sort of stuff in the country...

Not some wet behind the ears early 30's chap who was probably out clubbing it the night before and hungover in the Lab.

Was he genuinely the most experienced person to assign such a high-profile case to.... Really.....

I see where you are coming from Andrew. Maybe the idea was, lets just say, allow a
less experienced person to do the testing. Just my thoughts.

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 9:28 am

Morning Sat.

Would you agree with the McCanns then that anything found or not found in the hire car boot, was all to do with soiled nappies, rotten meat and decomposed fish etc etc...

Is it your belief that Madeleine was never ever in that hire car....

Thanks in advance for replying.

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:33 am

Well Andrew, that's just the point. There's nothing to suggest that she was. Only Amaral offered "speculation" (his words, not mine) that she might have been. DNA comes from humans that may or may not be dead, and the lab results showed nothing of any consequence anyway. Anything that was found was so microscopic it yielded no results. Hardly the signs of a thawing corpse. Tell me, if you had successfully hidden a corpse for 3 weeks, why would you then place it in the boot of a car that you had just hired?

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 9:38 am

Maybe they didn't have a choice but to move the corpse...

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:40 am

"Maybe" is a dubious word to use within the certainties of many members of this forum, Andrew. Now what about my previous point - a few microscopic traces of unidentified something which produced no tangible results in the lab - hardly the sign of a thawing decomposing corpse, is it?

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 9:46 am

Ok - take 'maybe' away.

The rest of that sentence still stands, imo.

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 9:47 am

And my second point?

While I'm at it, here's the PJ photo of one of the tiny spots of blood found by Keela on the apartment floor - embedded in the cement under the tile. If that's the residue of a death behind the sofa, please explain how it got there. Thanks as always

Capabilities of the Dogs - Page 26 08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2193_a_small

Capabilities of the Dogs - Page 26 08_VOLUME_VIIIa_Page_2193_a_small

AndyB Wed 18 May 2016, 9:55 am

Satsuma wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Satsuma wrote:But a DNA match (even if it is true) doesn't have to come from a corpse. DNA could come from anything touched by the person whose DNA it is
Only if in touching some (e.g.) sweat was deposited. DNA has to come from a body - its the building blocks that make every cell in our bodies. You seem to be conflating DNA and fingerprints
No I'm not. And you've answered your own point in your first sentence

Yes you are. You seem to think that just by touching something your DNA is all over it and that simply isn't true

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 10:10 am

No I don't. And the DNA in the boot of the Scenic wasn't "all over it" - whatever it came from, it was so microscopic that the lab tests yielded no significant results. As I said before, hardly the sign of of thawing, decomposing corpse

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 10:19 am

Sat - do you think the McCanns deliberately left soiled nappies, rotten meat and decomposed fish in the boot of the car..... Or they just simply forgot all about it and left it there for a period of time.....

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 10:24 am

A loaded question, if ever I heard one, Andrew

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 10:32 am

Satsuma wrote:A loaded question, if ever I heard one, Andrew

Not at all. A genuine question as to what your opinion of it was.

Incidentally, I once went on holiday for 2 weeks and before I left my house, I turned off all the electrics. I accidentally turned the freezer off as well. It was rammed with meat and fish.

The stench when I came back was unbearable and was so for a considerable amount of time.

So I can relate to the stench in the hire-car that was commented on and was seen with the boot being left open all night, after night.

But do you think it was intentional or purely an accident... A bit like my accident?

chirpyinsect Wed 18 May 2016, 11:08 am

Satsuma wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:And my point about where a body would be stored remains unanswered.
If there was no residue from a corpse in the boot, a body (if there was one) could have been anywhere

Forget whether it was ever in the car. Where would a body be kept to preserve it for 3 weeks?

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 11:09 am

But we don't know that there was a body, do we?

chirpyinsect Wed 18 May 2016, 11:10 am

Satsuma wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:And how to explain how transferred dna would get in the wheel arch?
I think those dog alerts were explained by the proximity of the wheel arch to the pocket in the door trim, where a key with blood on it had been. It's in the files
In any case, you wouldn't put a corpse in a wheel arch

No but fluids may have leaked out

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 11:16 am

But if fluids had leaked out of a thawing corpse, there would have been plenty of material for the lab to analyse. What was found was so small that the results were insignificant, and it isn't obvious what substances they were analysing anyway. If it had been a thawing corpse, DNA analysis would hardly have been needed anyway - a thawing corpse in a car is suspicious, whoever it is

chirpyinsect Wed 18 May 2016, 11:21 am

Satsuma wrote:But we don't know that there was a body, do we?

Oh I think we do. No previous death in 5a. Eddie ( and only Eddie) alerts in parent's room, veranda and flower bed, so something was dead long enough to be contaminated by cadaver scent. I agree it may not be the body itself but it seems likely that either the body was in the parent's room, then removed via the veranda then the flowerbed in a receptacle. It could of course have happened the other way round, the body being brought in, but that is much less likely. The weaker alert would say that the actual body was in the room, then in a bag or something on the journey out.
So if there was a cadaver connected to that apartment in whatever way you want to describe it, who was it if not Madeleine?

Andrew Wed 18 May 2016, 11:25 am

Sat, I think you might of accidentally missed my question again upthread.

Intentional or not?

Many thanks.

Satsuma Wed 18 May 2016, 11:26 am

No idea

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