The Mystery of Ben Needham

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  dogs don't lie on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 10:59 pm

It is ridiculous, sorry, but finding his toy car doesn't lead to his death, how can the Needhams accept this as proof if this is the only reason?? Police even??

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 11:01 pm

Leigh-Anna Needham ‏@LeighannaaMayy 1h1 hour ago
I will be appearing on the @GMB Sofa tomorrow morning at 8.10am
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 11:43 pm

canada12 wrote:A thought. If the Greek police say they thoroughly searched those sites in 1991 without finding anything then one of two things has happened:

1. The Greek police missed what SY has just found
or
2. Ben's body was moved back into that site after the Greek police had searched the site and found nothing.
Thoughts?

or

3. Nobody's none the wiser but after finding a toy car then it's best to get everything wrapped up and tell the world Ben is dead.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 11:45 pm

This all sounds so ridiculous if this is their only proof.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  canada12 on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:16 am

Perhaps there were circumstances that were specific to that toy car - ie, perhaps it was flattened, perhaps it had blood on it which has been proven through DNA testing to be Ben's, perhaps it was found with a piece of Ben's sandal? I also believe we're not being told everything. One toy car would not convince me. But one toy car with something else like blood stains or bone fragments with Ben's DNA might.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  TheTruthWillOut on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 12:48 am

canada12 wrote:Perhaps there were circumstances that were specific to that toy car - ie, perhaps it was flattened, perhaps it had blood on it which has been proven through DNA testing to be Ben's, perhaps it was found with a piece of Ben's sandal? I also believe we're not being told everything. One toy car would not convince me. But one toy car with something else like blood stains or bone fragments with Ben's DNA might.

I doubt it, Canada. It was first reported this find was on Saturday and now the reports are saying Sunday morning. What did we see on Sunday morning? A sudden gathering of all the searchers at site 2 with media getting a tip off to be there and hugs and team photos. Job done, dig ended.

Call me cynical.

Now I doubt OG.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  canada12 on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:09 am

What if part of the original tip off to police which resulted in this dig included a description of the toy car and where it could be found?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 6:14 am

canada12 wrote:Perhaps there were circumstances that were specific to that toy car - ie, perhaps it was flattened, perhaps it had blood on it which has been proven through DNA testing to be Ben's, perhaps it was found with a piece of Ben's santdal? I also believe we're not being told everything. One toy car would not convince me. But one toy car with something else like blood stains or bone fragments with Ben's DNA might.

then surely they would explain this to the assembled throng C12. Corroberative evidence in Scotland at least is suppossed to be a given....what kind of justice is being meated out here .. .and why the need to justify it?

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 7:49 am

If you came from planet zogg, were unfamiliar with the case and tuned in late, then you would think that the search was not for a missing child but a search for a missing toy.

"Missing toy car found after 25 year mystery"
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:03 am

Ben Needham ‏@FindBenNeedham 2m2 minutes ago
Leighanna Needham will be on ITV Good Morning Britain at 8.10am talking about the latest developments

Will see what the sister says about it all then.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 8:22 am

Fair play to the sister. She's not buying it either.

The gist:

Gran is not certain that it was Ben's toy car. 90% sure. Not certain it's the same one (lots of other toy cars were found but didn't catch where)

Not definitive proof that Ben is dead.

Sister remains hopeful that Ben is still alive.

Angry that were told to prepare for the worst but then no sign of Ben at all.

More determined than ever to find out what happened to Ben.

Sit down with the rest of the family next week and work out what to do next.

Will continue to search and self-fund it if H.O stop funding.

No proof that Ben is dead and remain hopeful that he's alive still.

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:31 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3846556/How-dare-drag-dad-s-mud-Ben-Needham-digger-driver-s-son-says-father-accused-child-killer-without-shred-evidence.html
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:34 am

Yes, I saw it Andrew. The whole thing doesn't make sense especially as they are not 100% that the toy car did belong to Ben. Pleased that she is questioning it.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  chrissie on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:50 am

Ben Needham sister: We remain hopeful he's still out there

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-10-18/ben-needham-sister-we-remain-hopeful-hes-still-out-there/

The younger sister of missing toddler Ben Needham has said the family is determined to continue searching for him and "still remain hopeful he's out there."

On Sunday, police found a toy car which they claimed to have belonged to Ben on the day he disappeared, before he died in an accident.

However speaking to Good Morning Britain on Tuesday, Leigh-Anna Needham dismissed their claim and said finding the toy "doesn't actually say anything to me".

"It could be Ben's, but it could also not be Ben's. We can't say for definite that it is Ben's toy car - that could've been any toy.

"I still remain hopeful that he's out there. The toy car's been shown to my mum and to my grandparents - my mum obviously broke down. They vaguely remember a toy car but... my nan is only 90% sure that it was similar to the one that Ben had.

"Over the three weeks [of digging], police have come across a number of toys. That farmhouse has been a family home to many people throughout many generations."

Holding back tears, she said her family has been going through a torturous time and felt "half-angry" at the authorities who have so far failed to find definitive proof that he died.

"We've been stuck in limbo for 25 years. I don't think my grandparents can take much more of this. It's absolutely destroyed my family and now I'm even more determined to find out what happened on that day.
"I'm sort of half-angry they didn't find anything, because we were told to prepare for the worst and we believed... that we were going to find him, bring him back and....deal with the grieving process.

"We would [have closure] and we could try and move on with our lives."

For the past three weeks, members of the Greek rescue service on the island of Kos have been assisting a specialist search team from South Yorkshire Police.

Detective Inspector John Cousins, speaking to reporters on Monday, said he believed Ben died after a "digger accident."

However it is a theory Leigh-Anne refuses to believe without "definitive proof".

She said: "It's based on probable doubt. That's what they believe may have happened to Ben without definitive proof, without any form of remains, then I will always remain hopeful that he's out there."

Leigh-Anne never met her elder brother as she was born three years after the 21-month-old disappeared on the Greek island, but has vowed to continue searching for him.

"I never met him but the bond that I feel for him - at the end of the day he's my flesh and blood. If it was me that was missing or me that was lost I wouldn't want anyone to give up on me at the last hurdle. We've fought for 25 years - I'm not about to stop now.

"We've got to sit down as a family and see where we go from here. We've funded everything on our own anyway - if it means we have to continue doing that then so be it."

She said the family were given the option of going to the farmhouse "to say goodbye", but it's something "they can't do".

"It's not something we can do, because there's no proof that he's there so how can we say goodbye to someone knowing that there is still that hope?

"When there is still that hope there is still a fight. I'm prepared to fight tooth and nail until I get to the bottom of this."
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  candyfloss on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 9:50 am

Andrew wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3846556/How-dare-drag-dad-s-mud-Ben-Needham-digger-driver-s-son-says-father-accused-child-killer-without-shred-evidence.html



The son of Kos digger driver Konstantino ‘Dinos’ Barkas has told of his anger that his father has been branded the killer of missing toddler Ben Needham without ‘a shred of evidence’.



Yep, I find it despicable that they can do this.  SY police either put up or shut up, either tell us what this evidence is on this man because a toy and words from a witness does not cut the mustard!

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:34 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-needhams-sister-fights-back-9068297
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:44 am

candyfloss wrote:
Andrew wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3846556/How-dare-drag-dad-s-mud-Ben-Needham-digger-driver-s-son-says-father-accused-child-killer-without-shred-evidence.html



The son of Kos digger driver Konstantino ‘Dinos’ Barkas has told of his anger that his father has been branded the killer of missing toddler Ben Needham without ‘a shred of evidence’.



Yep, I find it despicable that they can do this.  SY police either put up or shut up, either tell us what this evidence is on this man because a toy and words from a witness does not cut the mustard!

I fancy they won't be doing that anytime soon as it won't stand scrutiny, bur Mr Cousins has given us his professional belief, so that should be enough, shouldn't it Very Happy
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:27 pm

froggy wrote:“My team and I know that machinery, including a large digger, was used to clear an area of land on 24 July 1991, behind the farmhouse that was being renovated by the Needham’s. It is my professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing."

The wording is interesting because it doesn't indicate what sort of accident, nor does it state outright that the digger was involved. Readers are led,  by implication, to the idea that the digger operator was to blame, even though they don't actually say that.
A convenient ending for the police.

I wonder how many will actually believe that?

I've just read that released statement again, several times. (on page 41).

The wording is very interesting indeed and very carefully written I think.

A phrase that is often used on here is 'read between the lines'.

I'm just wondering whether we do need to read between the lines here. Or am I talking / thinking mumbo jumbo as I've had 4 coffees today.
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:40 pm

Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 2:45 pm

Châtelaine wrote:Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)

So would you say we need to 'read between the lines' on this particular statement then, C....?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  froggy on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 4:10 pm

Have SYP essentially concluded this case or are we likely to hear more from them ?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Châtelaine on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 6:54 pm

Andrew wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Not really, Andrew. Do read between the lines :-)

So would you say we need to 'read between the lines' on this particular statement then, C....?
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Andrew on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:38 pm

froggy wrote:Have SYP essentially concluded this  case or are we likely to hear more from them ?

Well according to the last paragraph of their statement.....

“We remain committed to the investigation and it will not simply close; myself and Detective Superintendent Matt Fenwick will retain ownership of it and if new information comes to light, we will investigate it thoroughly. We will not stop in our quest to find further answers for Ben’s family.”
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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Bampots on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:40 pm

Fantastic we look forward to some real closure for Kerry and family!

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Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Post  Helenmeg on Tue 18 Oct 2016, 10:44 pm

Even if it were Ben's toy car - toddlers of that age pick up and drop things pretty easily - he could have discarded it at any time.

If I were Ben's family then I would also remain hopeful until something proved otherwise. Really feel for them going through this - but
step by step they hopefully will get to the truth
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