Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

Andrew Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:32 pm

froggy wrote:
Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....

It's a possibility. Apparently these types of vehicle had a universal ignition key, so starting one up illicitly may not be difficult.

I doubt you'd even need one of those. I'd bet keys were just left in regardless back then. Especially there.

Even farmers near me would do that with tractors 25 years ago.

Andrew Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:36 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
Andrew wrote:I'm intrigued to know whether any of Dino's machinery was used in the afternoon at all... Without his knowledge and when he wasn't there....

That line in the SYP press release does say 'machinery, including a digger' so that right there gives rise to the possibility that an accident could have happened with another piece of equipment and/or person.

We don't even know what digger was there that day. The Mirror claim it was the behemoth Leibherr 952 they tracked down which weighs 46 tonnes and has a top speed of 5km/h or 3.5MPH i.e. it crawls along very slowly and it swivels in place. A JCB 3cx (SYP specifically mentioned a JCB) on the other hand weighs 8 tonnes and can go 38KM/H or 23MPH. If there was more than one machine there that day again questions are raised why Dino is getting the blame.

I have a question about DI Cousins/SYP. Has he, or anyone for SYP, stated on record/video they believe Dino is responsible? Quoted in a article or on a video briefing?

Regarding the last para.. Good question.

Not sure off the top of my head. I'm on phone now so hard to check but interested to know though.

froggy Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:36 pm

“It is our initial understanding that this item was in Ben’s possession around the time he went missing."

If that was their initial understanding, what is their understanding now?

The facts they know to be true may have no relevance. EG it is a fact that Dino was working machinery that day. What does that prove?

Andrew Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:48 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

... also, this phase of the investigation has now ended.

So what's the next phase then?

froggy Wed 19 Oct 2016, 4:53 pm

Andrew wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:An item found on Saturday, which I have shown personally to some of Ben’s family, was found in one of the targeted areas at the second site, very close to a dated item from 1991.

Wonder what the dated item could be.

... also, this phase of the investigation has now ended.

So what's the next phase then?

There isn't one. The case will now be put in the pending file awaiting any new development. Cousins et all will be deployed onto other more pressing tasks.

Andrew Wed 19 Oct 2016, 5:07 pm

Could DI Cousins be playing a blinder though.... Lots he knows (not said) to unravel the truth.... More to it to come when tests are completed etc....

Or has he had orders to get things wrapped up quickly and the toy car/digger was the best they had...

froggy Wed 19 Oct 2016, 5:20 pm

Andrew wrote:Could DI Cousins be playing a blinder though.... Lots he knows (not said) to unravel the truth.... More to it to come when tests are completed etc....

Or has he had orders to get things wrapped up quickly and the toy car/digger was the best they had...

Tests may very well prove to be unhelpful. Obviously they hoped for a more positive outcome and are trying to make the best of what they've got.

Andrew Wed 19 Oct 2016, 7:13 pm

.. Yeah, so they say.

But by all accounts they're not saying all they know.

A few more twists in this possibly..

Guest Wed 19 Oct 2016, 8:55 pm

The "dated item" could be Ben's sandal (or a piece of it). They know the sandals were made on the island and it could only have been during a certain period when Ben was there - if they've spoken to the fellow who made the sandals he'd be able to corroborate when he made them and would likely (hopefully) have a record of payment, with a date.

So if they've found Ben's sandal, or a piece of it, that would be confirmation of something more definite than a toy car. If it was confirmed Ben was wearing the sandals when last seen, then why would a piece of that same sandal (or the whole sandal) be found buried?

Of course we don't know if that's what they've found, but why request some replica sandals otherwise?

froggy Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:15 pm

Why request duplicate sandals anyway? They presumably hadn't found any sandal parts at that time so why go to the effort in advance?
It all sounds rather odd.

seahorse Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:22 pm

I think it is more likely they have found an item with 1991 actually printed on it.

A bit like the beer cans they found in 2012 with an expiry date of 1992 on it:

"They have now dug down to the level the soil would have been at in 1991.

Crucially, they have found the wheels and bonnet of metal Dinky cars Ben was playing with at the time.

Inspector Colin Hope said: “We are clearing the mound. We have been able to excavate down and we are recovering items like old beer cans which have sell-by dates of 1992.

“So we are certainly down to the level we need to be at and beyond.

“We have small parts of what look like tiny, little cars.

“We have found plastic bits of toys, little bits of dolls, from two metres out from the house to 30 metres. Some of those have been taken down and shown to the Needhams.

“They don’t recognise them, but that’s to be expected after the time we are looking at.”

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ben-needhams-mum-in-emotional-return-1396168

froggy Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:27 pm

How very convenient that would be. Sounds similar to those bombers who just happened to have their passports with them.

Not sure how that would help anyway, as there is no dispute that debris was dumped there in 1991. The only thing that couldn't be explained would be bones or clothing that he was known to be wearing.

seahorse Wed 19 Oct 2016, 9:30 pm

I know froggy.

The cynic in me also thinks that since the media shouted so loud that SYP were looking for Ben's dinky toy in their 2012 dig, that it could well have been planted by someone in the last 4 years.

dogs don't lie Wed 19 Oct 2016, 10:48 pm

What really bothers me about the car and dated item is, if they've found Bens car, why on earth would they stop there? Why not keep at it and find him?

Guest Wed 19 Oct 2016, 11:32 pm

dogs don't lie wrote:What really bothers me about the car and dated item is, if they've found Bens car, why on earth would they stop there? Why not keep at it and find him?

Perhaps they've concluded that his body was once there, but was moved.
But without any clues as to where it might have been moved to, they can't really start digging up the island at random locations.

Heisenburg Thu 20 Oct 2016, 8:29 am

Seems a likely scenario,with this "current phase ending",they have perhaps concluded from evidence gathered and statements taken,that this is the case.

dogs don't lie Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:01 am

What if he wasn't moved, I mean, did they go down so far, find his car and then just stopped at that that? Surely finding his car meant he might be very close, and finding even a fragment of him would leave no doubt? Then again, if they were told that's the spot where it happened but the witness didn't know where he was buried, that would indicate some truth in what was said. Still that doesn't mean Dino was responsible.
IMO

unreorganised Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:20 am

I'm seeing my mother today for the first time since this development. I'm going to ask her if she can remember the colour and model of the toy cars I had as a child.

**Freedom** Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:27 am

I think I can guess her reply!

However, it is possible in my view that, if one's child disappeared - however that happened - on a certain day, the memories of what he or she was wearing or had with them would be ingrained in the mind forever.

Heisenburg Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:35 am

unreorganised wrote:I'm seeing my mother today for the first time since this development. I'm going to ask her if she can remember the colour and model of the toy cars I had as a child.

Thats a good point,but one would imagine that Kos has far less rainfall than this country,then this being so the toy would be in some kind of fair condition to be able to be recognised especially if it was a favourite favourite at such a tender age.

froggy Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:51 am

I can't see the relevance of this toy car. Whatever happened to Ben, it is likely that the the toy was dropped and then moved along with debris at some later time.

Andrew Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:53 am

According to the 'somebody knows' documentary, Ben only ever had 2 toy cars. 2 toy cars that disappeared with him the day he vanished. 2 toy cars that Grandad didn't know anything about until 10 years later and 2 toy cars that Grandma didn't even give a second thought about until 10 years later.

Work that one out....

unreorganised Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:53 am

Freedom wrote:
However, it is possible in my view that, if one's child disappeared - however that happened - on a certain day, the memories of what he or she was wearing or had with them would be ingrained in the mind forever.

It has occurred to me that they might have made a record of it at the time, or had a photo. I've never seen such but then I don't follow this case that closely.

unreorganised Thu 20 Oct 2016, 9:58 am

Andrew wrote:According to the 'somebody knows' documentary, Ben only ever had 2 toy cars. 2 toy cars that disappeared with him the day he vanished. 2 toy cars that Grandad didn't know anything about until 10 years later and 2 toy cars that Grandma didn't even give a second thought about until 10 years later.

Work that one out....

Ah... I think I had the entire "Matchbox 75". In fact I recognise quite a few of these.

The Mystery of Ben Needham - Page 5 Ed6852b3fcf7e93e343308c34f9a8844

The Mystery of Ben Needham - Page 5 Ed6852b3fcf7e93e343308c34f9a8844

dogs don't lie Thu 20 Oct 2016, 10:00 am

froggy wrote:I can't see the relevance of this toy car. Whatever happened to Ben, it is likely that the the toy was dropped and then moved along with debris at some later time.

I agree, even if he was snatched, he'd probably have dropped one or both. I can't see how Kerry now believes he's dead because they found a car. LN is questioning it too.
IMO

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