The Mystery of Ben Needham

Interesting that you know that Andrew but rather than wrapped up....I would say hidden!

Bampots wrote:Interesting that you know that Andrew but rather than wrapped up....I would say hidden!

Absolutely agree Bampots.

Bampots wrote:Interesting that you know that Andrew but rather than wrapped up....I would say hidden!

Of course I don't know that. It's just a gut-feeling I have.

I believe there are a few similarities in both cases. And I think if they can resolve both at the same time, then they will. A sort of 2 for the price of 1 scenario.

Although I did always say that they'd conclude Ben's before Maddie's.

bluebell wrote:
Nor can I imagine it had water and electricity supplies, but I'm going to shut up about that now.              

I think you are correct. They were using a generator, that's why they asked Stephen to fill up the jerry can with diesel.

Very dangerous things generators.

Right. Back to business. With thanks to DougD over the way.
He mentions this important anomaly.


There is also confusion as to how Stephen got to Kerry's flat. According to the book, Eddie turned up in the Landrover about 5.30 to find Stephen in the shower.


When he established Ben was not there, they 'ran out to the Landrover..........Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone'


'Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Landrover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town'


so his bike must have still been at the caravan or the account is just poetic licence.

chirpyinsect wrote:Right. Back to business. With thanks to DougD over the way.
He mentions this important anomaly.


There is also confusion as to how Stephen got to Kerry's flat. According to the book, Eddie turned up in the Landrover about 5.30 to find Stephen in the shower.


When he established Ben was not there, they 'ran out to the Landrover..........Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone'


'Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Landrover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town'


so his bike must have still been at the caravan or the account is just poetic licence.

I can`t see what`s wrong with that. Why would his bike be at the caravan when he`d driven to Kerry`s flat. Apologies if I`m being stupid.

chirpyinsect wrote:Right. Back to business. With thanks to DougD over the way.
He mentions this important anomaly.


There is also confusion as to how Stephen got to Kerry's flat. According to the book, Eddie turned up in the Landrover about 5.30 to find Stephen in the shower.


When he established Ben was not there, they 'ran out to the Landrover..........Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone'


'Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Landrover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town'


so his bike must have still been at the caravan or the account is just poetic licence.

Perhaps a sentence was missed saying Eddie and Stephen put the bike in the back of the Landrover or Eddie and Danny dropped Stephen and Mum back at the flat for the bike?

I think what Mimi means is that he drove to the flat on the bike.

Stephen was at the flat with his bike but he went to the caravan with his dad - the book then says Dad and Danny returned to the farmhouse and Stephen and Mum went to the Police station on the bike. So if Stephen went to the caravan with his dad, where was his bike??  Did mum and Stephen walk to the flat for it or did Eddie and Danny drop them back at the flat?

ETA: or Stephen could have followed his dad back to the flat on his bike

Thanks Mo, but I still don`t get it. I should get the book so I can read it in full rather than bits other people post. I lose the chronology of it all.

Mimi I'll post the section - give me a minute

Eddie has now gone to Kerry's flat to see Stephen and make sure he's got Ben:

Ten minutes later, Dad pulled up outside my little flat. We all had keys for it and, as he turned the key in the lock, he let out a sigh of relief. He could hear the shower. They were there. Dad poured a glass of water and made himself comfortable on the small sofa. A few minutes later the bathroom door opened and Stephen stepped out. Just Stephen. ‘All right, Dad? Have you come for a shower as well?’ ‘No, I haven’t. Where’s Ben?’ ‘What do you mean?’ ‘Is Ben with you?’ ‘No. Why?’ ‘You didn’t bring him here on your bike?’ When he had processed the question, Stephen was offended at the idea. ‘Of course I didn’t, Dad. He hasn’t got a helmet. I never would.’ Dad’s mind was jelly as the horror set in. He started shaking. Stephen picked up on it a few seconds later. Mum and I were still in the dark. ‘Get dressed. Let’s go.’ As they ran out to the Land Rover Stephen said, ‘I left Ben playing by the door, Dad. I swear I did.’ Dad said nothing. He knew it was true but he didn’t want to believe him. If his son hadn’t whisked Ben off, then what the hell had happened to him? Toddlers don’t just disappear. He felt sick. Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone. One minute she was holding a knife and plate. The next they were both on the floor. ‘No, no, you must have him, Stephen, you have to have him.’ But she knew from her son’s face he was telling the truth. It could only mean one thing. ‘Ben’s still out there.’ A state of frenzy descended on the caravan. Somehow they held themselves together enough to plan. Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Land Rover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town. It was six o’clock in the evening. Ben had been missing for three hours.

seahorse wrote:

Freedom wrote:It's my understanding that Eddie and Christine went to Kerry's flat - where Stephen had earlier gone for a shower - and it was there that he said that Ben wasn't with him.

I haven't time now to check whether the documentary says something different.

From ‘Somebody Knows’ (2001):

It was only later that evening, around 7.30 that Eddie found Stephen showering at Kerry’s flat , that they realised Ben was missing.
Stephen: I was out still in the shower. He knocked on the shower door and said: “Have you got Ben with you?”, And I said, No.

Book (2013):

Christine walked back to the caravan. No one there, but saw jerry can full of petrol. Assumed Stephen had taken Ben to Hotel for a swim. Started preparing dinner. It was around 5pm.
Around 5.20 pm Eddie and Danny arrived at caravan. Eddie not worried.
Around 5.30 pm Eddie arrives at Kerry’s flat, where he hears the shower. He is relieved and has glass of water and makes himself comfortable. A few minutes later Stephen comes out of the shower.  Just Stephen.  Stephen says he didn’t take Ben with him. Shock sets in. They return to caravan.
Around 6 pm Eddie and Danny return to farmhouse in Landrover. Mum and Stephen went to Kos Police on the motorbike.
6.30 Kos Police despatched to farmhouse

-------------------------------------------

2 hours difference between the documentary and the book with regards to Eddie's arrival at the flat!

Kos police know what time the disappearance was reported and so do SYP!

That is an outright lie. Ben was noted as missing after lunch. Despite what appears to have been, according to Kerry's book, some quite frantic searching initially, no alarm was raised until around 6pm??? Despite the initial frantic searching a conclusion was reached that Ben had gone off on with his young relative on his moped...and so everyone relaxed?

Really?

Nah, the account of that afternoon has alarm bells sounding and red flags flying all the way.

I think it is fairly self-evident what happened and I am sure the Greek police were hugely suspicious about what happened.

What might be unclear would be: was it a tragic accident or was it perhaps an 'accident on purpose'. I would tend to assume the former but of course the latter cannot be entirely ruled out. Would be interesting to know a bit more about the family dynamics.

IMO of course. Theories as always and probably wrong!

Mo wrote:Mimi I'll post the section - give me a minute

Eddie has now gone to Kerry's flat to see Stephen and make sure he's got Ben:

Ten minutes later, Dad pulled up outside my little flat. We all had keys for it and, as he turned the key in the lock, he let out a sigh of relief. He could hear the shower. They were there. Dad poured a glass of water and made himself comfortable on the small sofa. A few minutes later the bathroom door opened and Stephen stepped out. Just Stephen. ‘All right, Dad? Have you come for a shower as well?’ ‘No, I haven’t. Where’s Ben?’ ‘What do you mean?’ ‘Is Ben with you?’ ‘No. Why?’ ‘You didn’t bring him here on your bike?’ When he had processed the question, Stephen was offended at the idea. ‘Of course I didn’t, Dad. He hasn’t got a helmet. I never would.’ Dad’s mind was jelly as the horror set in. He started shaking. Stephen picked up on it a few seconds later. Mum and I were still in the dark. ‘Get dressed. Let’s go.’ As they ran out to the Land Rover Stephen said, ‘I left Ben playing by the door, Dad. I swear I did.’ Dad said nothing. He knew it was true but he didn’t want to believe him. If his son hadn’t whisked Ben off, then what the hell had happened to him? Toddlers don’t just disappear. He felt sick. Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone. One minute she was holding a knife and plate. The next they were both on the floor. ‘No, no, you must have him, Stephen, you have to have him.’ But she knew from her son’s face he was telling the truth. It could only mean one thing. ‘Ben’s still out there.’ A state of frenzy descended on the caravan. Somehow they held themselves together enough to plan. Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Land Rover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town. It was six o’clock in the evening. Ben had been missing for three hours.

Oh Mo, thank you. I`ve got it now They ALL must have gone back to the flat, dropped Christine and Stephen off, then Eddie and Danny went back to the farmhouse.

I have bought the book from Amazon now.

poster wrote:

seahorse wrote:

Freedom wrote:It's my understanding that Eddie and Christine went to Kerry's flat - where Stephen had earlier gone for a shower - and it was there that he said that Ben wasn't with him.

I haven't time now to check whether the documentary says something different.

From ‘Somebody Knows’ (2001):

It was only later that evening, around 7.30 that Eddie found Stephen showering at Kerry’s flat , that they realised Ben was missing.
Stephen: I was out still in the shower. He knocked on the shower door and said: “Have you got Ben with you?”, And I said, No.

Book (2013):

Christine walked back to the caravan. No one there, but saw jerry can full of petrol. Assumed Stephen had taken Ben to Hotel for a swim. Started preparing dinner. It was around 5pm.
Around 5.20 pm Eddie and Danny arrived at caravan. Eddie not worried.
Around 5.30 pm Eddie arrives at Kerry’s flat, where he hears the shower. He is relieved and has glass of water and makes himself comfortable. A few minutes later Stephen comes out of the shower.  Just Stephen.  Stephen says he didn’t take Ben with him. Shock sets in. They return to caravan.
Around 6 pm Eddie and Danny return to farmhouse in Landrover. Mum and Stephen went to Kos Police on the motorbike.
6.30 Kos Police despatched to farmhouse

-------------------------------------------

2 hours difference between the documentary and the book with regards to Eddie's arrival at the flat!

Kos police know what time the disappearance was reported and so do SYP!

That is an outright lie. Ben was noted as missing after lunch. Despite what appears to have been, according to Kerry's book, some quite frantic searching initially, no alarm was raised until around 6pm??? Despite the initial frantic searching a conclusion was reached that Ben had gone off on with his young relative on his moped...and so everyone relaxed?

Really?

Nah, the account of that afternoon has alarm bells sounding and red flags flying all the way.

I think it is fairly self-evident what happened and I am sure the Greek police were hugely suspicious about what happened.

What might be unclear would be: was it a tragic accident or was it perhaps an 'accident on purpose'. I would tend to assume the former but of course the latter cannot be entirely ruled out. Would be interesting to know a bit more about the family dynamics.

IMO of course. Theories as always and probably wrong!

The film Somebody Knows was made in 2001.
Kerry`s book was written in 2013.

Kerry has relied on what she`s been told by her Dad, Mum and Stephen in the writing of the book. But you think she would have watched the documentary in 2001 and heard what Stephen said about his Dad knocking on the shower door and queried it when they told her something different when she wrote the book.

Like another book, is this book all about back-fitting......

2013 release.

A long time to get thing's straight.

That's OK Mimi - That's what I think too.  I think what we have to remember is that Kerry has written this book on what she has been told. Apologies to Chirpy I didn't mean to take over

ETA Just read your last post Mimi - I've repeated what you have said.

Yes, there are many inconsistencies, but if anything untoward had happened, I really think Kerry and her Mum are not aware of it. Seeing Kerry sobbing non stop in that TV interview and the efforts she has made to search and get help from the police doesn`t fit with someone who is playing a game - same with her Mum - I get the feeling it`s her that`s motivated her husband to keep searching abroad.

I definitely believe Kerry and her mum, in fact her mum kept having to correct Eddie in the film - there's something about Eddie that I'm not sure about. but then I think about the owner of the villa being there at the time.

From what I have just been reading about the family's life after Kos it seems Eddie has been obsessed about searching for Ben.   I'll get the link, though all dismal and depressing reading naturally.

http://benneedham18.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/lost-and-found-missing-by-melanie.html

Lost and Found: Missing by Melanie McFadyean

Mimi wrote:

Mo wrote:Mimi I'll post the section - give me a minute

Eddie has now gone to Kerry's flat to see Stephen and make sure he's got Ben:

Ten minutes later, Dad pulled up outside my little flat. We all had keys for it and, as he turned the key in the lock, he let out a sigh of relief. He could hear the shower. They were there. Dad poured a glass of water and made himself comfortable on the small sofa. A few minutes later the bathroom door opened and Stephen stepped out. Just Stephen. ‘All right, Dad? Have you come for a shower as well?’ ‘No, I haven’t. Where’s Ben?’ ‘What do you mean?’ ‘Is Ben with you?’ ‘No. Why?’ ‘You didn’t bring him here on your bike?’ When he had processed the question, Stephen was offended at the idea. ‘Of course I didn’t, Dad. He hasn’t got a helmet. I never would.’ Dad’s mind was jelly as the horror set in. He started shaking. Stephen picked up on it a few seconds later. Mum and I were still in the dark. ‘Get dressed. Let’s go.’ As they ran out to the Land Rover Stephen said, ‘I left Ben playing by the door, Dad. I swear I did.’ Dad said nothing. He knew it was true but he didn’t want to believe him. If his son hadn’t whisked Ben off, then what the hell had happened to him? Toddlers don’t just disappear. He felt sick. Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone. One minute she was holding a knife and plate. The next they were both on the floor. ‘No, no, you must have him, Stephen, you have to have him.’ But she knew from her son’s face he was telling the truth. It could only mean one thing. ‘Ben’s still out there.’ A state of frenzy descended on the caravan. Somehow they held themselves together enough to plan. Dad and Danny would return to the farmhouse in the Land Rover. Mum and Stephen would take his motorbike to the police station in Kos Town. It was six o’clock in the evening. Ben had been missing for three hours.

Oh Mo, thank you.  I`ve got it now They ALL must have gone back to the flat, dropped Christine and Stephen off, then Eddie and Danny went back to the farmhouse.

I have bought the book from Amazon now.

Wow. This passage is so rich in terms of versions of truth, or not, imo.

"Ten minutes later, Dad pulled up outside my little flat. We all had keys for it and, as he turned the key in the lock, he let out a sigh of relief. He could hear the shower. They were there."

Why would hearing the shower signify that Ben was there? Why would he let out a 'sigh of relief'? "They" were there...really?

The next few sentences I think sound highly artificial but what really stands out to me is this:

"Stephen was offended at the idea. ‘Of course I didn’t, Dad. He hasn’t got a helmet. I never would."

Why mention a helmet? A helmet would obviously protect from a head injury...

 

"Dad’s mind was jelly as the horror set in. He started shaking. Stephen picked up on it a few seconds later. Mum and I were still in the dark. ‘Get dressed. Let’s go.’ As they ran out to the Land Rover Stephen said, ‘I left Ben playing by the door, Dad. I swear I did.’ Dad said nothing. He knew it was true but he didn’t want to believe him. "

Ah.....I think even Inspector Clouseau could work this one out...with the help of the Key Stone Cops....


"If his son hadn’t whisked Ben off, then what the hell had happened to him? Toddlers don’t just disappear. He felt sick. Mum crumpled when she saw Dad and Stephen return alone. One minute she was holding a knife and plate. The next they were both on the floor. ‘No, no, you must have him, Stephen, you have to have him.’ But she knew from her son’s face he was telling the truth. It could only mean one thing. ‘Ben’s still out there.’ "

Oh dear, it this did not involve such a tragic event, the above account would be laughable.

As it is, I suggest it is the account of a a traumatized mother who  knows happened to her son.

"Still out there" - that sounds familiar. Rather as with KM's accounts, I think a negative needs to be added quite often to get close to the truth.

Again, IMO only.

Excellent post......er poster!

In the film "somebody Knows" Christine says that Kerry dropped Ben off at the caravan at 8 o`clock. I believe Kerry said it was later and that she stayed and had a coffee with her Mum even though she was late for work.

Another thing in the film, Eddie says he thought Ben got wet because he was playing with the hose, so there must have been mains water - you wouldn`t let a child waste water if you had to be careful with it.

Another thing - where did their sewerage go? Did they have a septic tank?

Mo wrote:That's OK Mimi - That's what I think too.  I think what we have to remember is that Kerry has written this book on what she has been told. Apologies to Chirpy I didn't mean to take over

ETA Just read your last post Mimi - I've repeated what you have said.

No problem Mo. It was late for me so just quickly posted what I had read then bedtime. I didn't realise it seemed cryptic. My understanding of what DougD was alluding to was how did Stephen's bike get back to the flat if he and Eddie went back to the caravan in the landrover?
Glad it's sorted.

Probably worth putting it here again as well.

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/blogeditorial-decision.html

It's a mystery why Dino and his digger were ever given any credibility as  suspects

p88 of the book describes  the lane just after BN's disappearance as being "barren and empty". Apparently the ditches were inspected for signs of him

No mention of a whacking great noisy digger churning up the plot next door

You can't miss seeing one of those though, especially when your kid's just run off