General Election Discussion - before and after the event

Changed the title to all things General Election from the Labour Manifesto.

Anyway just seen this load of tripe again from the Tories.  Blood boiling annoying stuff.  So let me get this right, they encouraged people to buy their own homes ..... but now you will have to use that to pay for your care.  On the other hand if you have lived off the Government all your life on benefits, had council housing then of course they will foot the bill again.  Totally mad!!  Tax, tax and more tax in this country, I am sick of it all.


Conservative manifesto: Why many will pay more for care
        
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-39957879

This is just the first paragraph of the article. rest snipped and on link above.



What the Conservatives have proposed for elderly care is complex.

They are changing certain thresholds as well as what can be defined as assets and how long you wait before you have to pay your bill.

But in the end it can be summed up quite easily - they want people to pay more towards the cost of their care, but are prepared to wait until you die before taking it from your estate.

Yes, some elements of their plans sound generous and certainly some people will benefit, but large numbers won't.

Why? Because we are a nation of homeowners and these plans make sure that whatever sort of care you need, the value of your home can be taken into account

I have studied the Tory manifesto, merely seen the headlines.
Is there anything in it that is positive for anyone?

Last night on Radio 4 there was a programme called The Inquiry : How did Immigration stop being a political taboo?

It was a broad look at how things have developed since the late 40s and 50s after the war, then the famous Enoch Powell speech in 1968 which he was condemned for, which is now becoming true.

It points out human nature and how it`s natural to react to being taken over by other cultures and it shouldn`t be labelled as racism because it`s not.

Anyway it`s worth a listen.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p052kwl7

There are more things in the Labour manifesto that I agree with (I see Jeremy Corbyn has gone back on what he believes about Trident which is a shame IMO).

I agree with nationalising all public services.  Privatisation just benefits shareholders who are already well off, although I concede privatisation does promote competition.

I think I agree with nearly everything in the Labour manifesto except their far too relaxed attitude on immigration and their attitude to leaving the EU. I also think they will sever our love affair with the USA and promote good relations with Russia which is a good thing IMO. It`s only the ruddy USA that is determined to keep Russia as an enemy.

Goodness knows what I should vote for because the only thing I want Theresa May as PM for is the fact that she`ll be firm with Brussels and do the best for us leaving the EU.  I don`t care about trade deals and tariffs - all I want is to get our borders secured.

Mimi wrote:I agree with nationalising all public services.  Privatisation just benefits shareholders who are already well off, although I concede privatisation does promote competition.

Not necessarily. BT Openreach is a monopoly. I can't buy my water from anyone but Northumbrian water. If I want to take the train from Durham to London I have to use Virgin East Coast

AndyB wrote:

Mimi wrote:I agree with nationalising all public services.  Privatisation just benefits shareholders who are already well off, although I concede privatisation does promote competition.

Not necessarily. BT Openreach is a monopoly. I can't buy my water from anyone but Northumbrian water. If I want to take the train from Durham to London I have to use Virgin East Coast

Thanks AndyB - you see I didn`t know that.

It`s good to discuss these things.

Someone told me in the dentist`s yesterday that our local council is now privatised. I couldn`t believe it so checked it out.

It`s what they term a Joint Venture, but all the services are now carried out by private companies, i.e. bin and waste collections, gardening maintenance of public areas and roadsides, housing, social care, street lighting and many more I`m sure. If you look at it closely, our local council now is nothing but a central office that delegates all it`s responsibilities to private companies.

I can`t see how we`re ever going to go back from this. It`s too late now. Bl**dy tories.

I can't see anyone voting for this.


Theresa May wants a dementia tax. But it could be a step too far even for the nasty party

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/18/theresa-may-wants-a-dementia-tax-but-it-could-be-a-step-too-far-even-for-the-nasty-party/

Dementia tax hashtag is blazing.

andysearson‏ @andysearson · 2h2 hours ago

Even Tories are against this #ManifestoOfMisery going after the elderly and our children is disgraceful. #dementiatax



Daniel Jenkins‏ @Daniel19893 · 3h3 hours ago

The sad sad irony of the #DementiaTax proposed by the Tories is that they've announced it during #DementiaAwarenessWeek



Kloppy McKloppface‏ @andypage251 · 2h2 hours ago


My legacy will be taking away the homes of those suffering with dementia....excellent! #dementiatax #ToryManifesto #VoteLabour #GE17





Rachael‏ @Rachael_Swindon · 4h4 hours ago

Even by the Tories horrific standards, the #DementiaTax is scraping the barrel. So many ways to raise cash but they do this? Disgusting.





Magpie Ranger‏ @NUFC_OurClub · 5m5 minutes ago

I cannot believe the Tories are introducing a #dementiatax

Jesus Wept.




Mark G‏ @Brand_No_7 · 2h2 hours ago

It's #DementiaAwarenessWeek & to celebrate the Tories announce they are going to tax dementia sufferers #torymanifesto #dementiatax




Marie‏ @RUSignificant · 2h2 hours ago

If #dementiatax doesn't guarantee a Labour win, nothing will!!




Gav

This tweet from political editor Sunday Times...



Tim Shipman‏ @ShippersUnbound · 5h5 hours ago  
 
Adam Boulton: "Mrs May's advisers are blocking interviews by senior ministers to Sky News"



Interesting this.....


John Rentoul‏Verified account @JohnRentoul · 4h4 hours ago  

Sky News spokesperson backs up @adamboultonSKY feud with Fiona Hill, Prime Minister's chief of staff

It gets worse....


Conservative manifesto: Children to lose free school meals under 'lunch snatcher' Theresa May's plans

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-conservative-school-funding-cuts-children-lose-free-hot-lunches-election-2017-tory-a7742131.html





Stephen Taylor8‏ @StephenTaylor8 · 6m6 minutes ago
Nothing for Children. Nothing for Students. Nothing for Pensioners. Nothing for the Disabled. Plenty for Corperations. #torymanifesto

I agree plenty people can afford school dinners ,why give away to that sort of thing .I don't mind the real needy having free ,by the way.It should never occurred in the first place . joyce1938

It looks like the election night TV broadcasts may be interesting, after all.

These twitterers and some news outlets only report half the story.

The school lunch thingey was only applicable to infants in the first place.  But the Tories are going to extend breakfasts in schools - not sure if it`s free or not. I agree with Joyce that the really poor kids should have free school meals.

Old people will not have to sell their homes to pay for care - surely this is good.  After the person`s death the council can claim back the caring bill and still leave £100,000 in the estate for the relatives to inherit.  So if a relative has dementia and go into a home, their house stays put until they die and then the council can claw back the money but have to leave £100,000 in the estate after the house is sold.  Have I got this right? cos I can`t see what`s wrong with that.

It`s good that they are means testing the winter fuel allowance - far too many old people do not need it.  I do by the way !  Also they are keeping the pensioner benefits, i.e. the free bus pass, free TV licence and free eye tests.  But IMO these should also be means tested.

It`s good that they are going to make immigrants pay for their medical care and also penalise companies for employing foreign workers by taxing them £2,000 for each worker.

It kills me but in the absence of a UKIP candidate I will have to vote Tory as they're the only party besides UKIP to honour the Brexit Referendum. I'm lending May  my vote but woe betide her if she starts backsliding on her promises. UKIP will then  sweep the board at local elections.
I just cannot see how Corbyn makes any sense whatsoever. He talks of more funding for NHS etc. etc. but with open borders how can he possibly make a cost assessment  when he hasn't the faintest idea how many people will have access to our schools and hospitals ? It would be a never ending drain. How can he possibly say that he supports the working classes and in the same breath wants to stay in the EU where open borders are sacrosanct ? It's no secret that surplus  labour has lowered the cost of wages. The Unions? What are they about? Certainly not for the average working man, that's for sure. It seems to me that they are ALL out to stuff us. As I say I'm LENDING May my vote but I'm not happy about it.
Incidentally talking of the rich is anyone else on here as sick as I am of reading about Pippa Middleton and her outrageous wedding preparations ? Shades of, '' Let them eat cake.'' My word this country needs sorting out!

It will be interesting to see UKIP`s manifesto which is coming out next week.

"UKIP will publish its fully-costed manifesto next week in a document that will reveal significant reductions to the £14bn so-called annual foreign aid budget, as well as a cast-iron guarantee around slashing net immigration by introducing a points-based mechanism."

http://www.ukip.org/

Mimi wrote:These twitterers and some news outlets only report half the story.

The school lunch thingey was only applicable to infants in the first place.  But the Tories are going to extend breakfasts in schools - not sure if it`s free or not.  I agree with Joyce that the really poor kids should have free school meals.

Old people will not have to sell their homes to pay for care - surely this is good.  After the person`s death the council can claim back the caring bill and still leave £100,000 in the estate for the relatives to inherit.  So if a relative has dementia and go into a home, their house stays put until they die and then the council can claw back the money but have to leave £100,000 in the estate after the house is sold.  Have I got this right? cos I can`t see what`s wrong with that.

It`s good that they are means testing the winter fuel allowance - far too many old people do not need it.  I do by the way !  Also they are keeping the pensioner benefits, i.e. the free bus pass, free TV licence and free eye tests.  But IMO these should also be means tested.

It`s good that they are going to make immigrants pay for their medical care and also penalise companies for employing foreign workers by taxing them £2,000 for each worker.

You have to ask yourself: Why in a country where there are billionaires a plenty we have '' really poor kids.'' This is the 21st century , not the 1940's. We send billions abroad in foreign aid but we can't look after our own? As for means testing . It's the same old thing. Those that never bothered to provide for their futures get the whole works whilst those that went without and were responsible are penalised. The real hilarious one though has to be means testing the bus pass. Do rich people really use public transport. Come on!

Mimi wrote:These twitterers and some news outlets only report half the story.

The school lunch thingey was only applicable to infants in the first place.  But the Tories are going to extend breakfasts in schools - not sure if it`s free or not.  I agree with Joyce that the really poor kids should have free school meals.

Old people will not have to sell their homes to pay for care - surely this is good.  After the person`s death the council can claim back the caring bill and still leave £100,000 in the estate for the relatives to inherit.  So if a relative has dementia and go into a home, their house stays put until they die and then the council can claw back the money but have to leave £100,000 in the estate after the house is sold.  Have I got this right? cos I can`t see what`s wrong with that.

It`s good that they are means testing the winter fuel allowance - far too many old people do not need it.  I do by the way !  Also they are keeping the pensioner benefits, i.e. the free bus pass, free TV licence and free eye tests.  But IMO these should also be means tested.

It`s good that they are going to make immigrants pay for their medical care and also penalise companies for employing foreign workers by taxing them £2,000 for each worker.

How can you segregate children and say 'sorry you can't go and eat your parents are too well off' - that is totally unacceptable, children should not be put through that. It's all or nothing.

Mimi wrote:It will be interesting to see UKIP`s manifesto which is coming out next week.

"UKIP will publish its fully-costed manifesto next week in a document that will reveal significant reductions to the £14bn so-called annual foreign aid budget, as well as a cast-iron guarantee around slashing net immigration by introducing a points-based mechanism."

http://www.ukip.org/

Just seen on SKY news there is a debate after all between TM and JC........ SKY Monday 29th May.

nannygroves wrote:It kills me but in the absence of a UKIP candidate I will have to vote Tory as they're the only party besides UKIP to honour the Brexit Referendum. I'm lending May  my vote but woe betide her if she starts backsliding on her promises. UKIP will then  sweep the board at local elections.
I just cannot see how Corbyn makes any sense whatsoever. He talks of more funding for NHS etc. etc. but with open borders how can he possibly make a cost assessment  when he hasn't the faintest idea how many people will have access to our schools and hospitals ? It would be a never ending drain. How can he possibly say that he supports the working classes and in the same breath wants to stay in the EU where open borders are sacrosanct ? It's no secret that surplus  labour has lowered the cost of wages. The Unions? What are they about? Certainly not for the average working man, that's for sure. It seems to me that they are ALL out to stuff us. As I say I'm LENDING May my vote but I'm not happy about it.
Incidentally talking of the rich is anyone else on here as sick as I am of reading about Pippa Middleton and her outrageous wedding preparations ? Shades of, '' Let them eat cake.'' My word this country needs sorting out!

Don't understand what you mean by Thearse May being the only party to honour the Brexit vote? Corbyn has accepted this unequivocally, and, in fact risked huge backlash from the Remainers in his own party. Corbyn has accepted the people's choice 100% - he is, of course, the ultimate democrat. He now wishes to negotiate the best leaving conditions for the people of Britain - not the wrench that will benefit only corporate interests - why would anyone have an issue with that? The man is to be commended for his integrity with regard to his Brexit commitment despite huge adversity. 

Labour's manifesto represents a holistic solution to our country's woes. The simple philosophy is give the people the ability to work to support themselves AND to have surplus funds to spend into the economy in order to strengthen that economy. Only with a strong economy will the country be able to afford comfortably the health service and embrace those immigrants who will also contribute to that strong economy. 

The masses are poorer than they've ever been. They are a drain on the NHS because of conditions linked to poverty - addiction, obesity, mental health issues. Similarly with other public services struggling to cater for a huge population which is unable to contribute back into the public coffers. The only way to stop the cycle is to give them a degree of disposable wealth. This is done in two ways - decent jobs with decent income and reducing outgoings. The former is done by enforcing a living wage for all (thus stopping the undercutting of the indigenous wages by unscrupulous employers who abuse the labour of immigrants) and the latter by nationalisation of the service industries making them not-for-profit.

The Labour Manifesto aims to break the cycle and do exactly this. This way, the growing population will not be a drain because the majority will be paying back into the country.

Incidentally, do people realise that the full cost of this manifesto is less than the cost of the HS2 Tory baby. No brainer.

candyfloss wrote:

Mimi wrote:It will be interesting to see UKIP`s manifesto which is coming out next week.

"UKIP will publish its fully-costed manifesto next week in a document that will reveal significant reductions to the £14bn so-called annual foreign aid budget, as well as a cast-iron guarantee around slashing net immigration by introducing a points-based mechanism."

http://www.ukip.org/

Just seen on SKY news there is a debate after all between TM and JC........  SKY Monday 29th May.

It's not, Candy. Everyone thought this at first but then it emerged that Thearse May once again stamped her cowardly authority on it. Instead of a head-to-head, Corbyn and Chicken May will instead be interviewed separately, answering (probably scripted in her case) questions from the hand-picked studio audience.

Just what is she scared of?

My main concern (and I think our country`s main concern) is immigration so I might go for UKIP - depends what their manifesto is.

They keep saying the older generation are living longer and clogging up the NHS but no one ever comments about the millions of immigrants clogging up the NHS.

Some older people never use their bus passes - my neighbour wouldn`t be seen dead on a bus ! But they shouldn`t be issued to well off people who either have their own cars or use taxis. But I suppose it makes no difference to the bus companies.

Not everyone can provide for their future no matter how hard they work. Who is rich enough to put money by - not many people. The Insurance Stamp was supposed to be for the NHS and old age pension. I`m sure no one would mind paying a larger amount in national insurance. And has all that money been invested carefully or have governments done a Philip Green and used it all for other things.

candyfloss wrote:

How can you segregate children and say 'sorry you can't go and eat your parents are too well off' - that is totally unacceptable, children should not be put through that.  It's all or nothing.

It doesn`t have to happen like that Candy. They all eat together and no one knows who is using a voucher and who is not - unless of course the vouchered child tells everyone. Only the office staff would know.

Dee Coy wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

Mimi wrote:It will be interesting to see UKIP`s manifesto which is coming out next week.

"UKIP will publish its fully-costed manifesto next week in a document that will reveal significant reductions to the £14bn so-called annual foreign aid budget, as well as a cast-iron guarantee around slashing net immigration by introducing a points-based mechanism."

http://www.ukip.org/

Just seen on SKY news there is a debate after all between TM and JC........  SKY Monday 29th May.

It's not, Candy. Everyone thought this at first but then it emerged that Thearse May once again stamped her cowardly authority on it. Instead of a head-to-head, Corbyn and Chicken May will instead be interviewed separately, answering (probably scripted in her case) questions from the hand-picked studio audience.

Just what is she scared of?

I should have known, just typical, no guts to stand up to Corbyn.

What was so noticeable about her speech today was it was all me, me, me, not the Conseratives, but I or me. She actually started with 'my' manifesto, blimey she sounds harder than Thatcher. I used to like Theresa May a lot, but she has certainly made me do a u turn.

Mimi wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

How can you segregate children and say 'sorry you can't go and eat your parents are too well off' - that is totally unacceptable, children should not be put through that.  It's all or nothing.

It doesn`t have to happen like that Candy.  They all eat together and no one knows who is using a voucher and who is not - unless of course the vouchered child tells everyone.  Only the office staff would know.

As if children wouldn't know and talk in the playground. It makes for a 2 class society, children should not be included in all this politics, they deserve free meals at school all of them.