Operation Grange

Mimi wrote:It has been asked here "Why is it so important to the government that the abduction theory retains prominence" or words to that effect.

But is it ?  Where is the evidence for that ? Are we sure the government is on their side ?

If you look a few posts back you'll see that when I originally posed the question, it was in response to a theory "purported" by Heisenberg (reproduced below). In other words, the whole discussion is conjecture

AndyB wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Give it a few weeks so as to show its not shadowing events in the Portuguese courts to closely but well with in a time frame which will allow the McCanns to go to the ECHR,OG will declare in their professional opinion that Madeleine was abducted by a person or persons unknown.Opinion based of course.

And if that happens the question will then be; why is it so important to the government that the public believe Madeleine was abducted when she wasn't?

But while we're on the subject of evidence based claims you made this one

Mimi wrote:David Cameron only ordered an investigation after Rebeka Brooks had threatened him.

It’s a claim I’ve read many times but I’ve never seen any evidence to back it up. Do you have any? Personally I think it very unlikely. Rebekah Brooks and David Cameron are bffs so it would be strange for her to threaten him. It’s possible that they did a deal along the lines of “open an investigation or enquiry into Madeleine McCann and you’ll have our support at the next election” or something similar, but that's not what's being claimed

Yes people should really read the Leveson transcript, she says no such thing and even denies talking to Cameron about it.  They were really good buddies- do people usually threaten their good friends, I think not.  It has become entrenched as fact now that she threatened him, it is simply not true.

Mimi wrote:It would be good to reflect on what government people, diplomats etc. have actually said (not what the McCanns said they said). I will look at this when I`m more awake.

We know MI5 have intervened at some points, GA reckons this.  But MI5 are not the government, though I would bet they control the government to some extent.

Remember GCHQ has info on all of us.

Wasn't Mr Grime supposed to have been met at an airport by MI5? you can imagine the conversation,now then Grime dear chap what did the dogs find,in reply Mr Grime could only reply nothing with out forensics back up,agent:good man,under his breath adding there'll be no such thing.All imo of course.Which is where we are nigh on ten yrs down the line six of them under an investigation codenamed Operation Grange I'll use the term investigation loosely.

Just noticed the poll over the road, re cover up. 20 to 0 for cover up, what a surprise. Ah well, we will see.... It's unbelievable, all these years and they still can't produce a cover up, it would have happened within a year or so. They wouldn't have even attempted it without the final conclusion already in hand. Only real investigations take time, real investigations don't have time limits imposed on them. How can anyone say it is a cover up with no information coming out to say so.... Oh unless of course you believe half the nonsense in the press, which always comes from 'sources'

Its a review which according to Stephenson will never see the light of day?

The OG can cover up all they like but I'm more interested in what the PJ have to say/release when this is all over. The Supreme Court ruling must have given the PJ confidence to come to their own conclusion whether OG agree or not. It will also be interesting to see what the BBC Panorama team were doing in Luz, they often make controversial documentaries. Judging by the desperate attempts by the MSM to try and sway people towards supporting the Mcc's (but failing miserably), this shows now how intense this case has become since the release of another £85,000. The Mcc's no doubt are pooing themselves because there is nothing being leaked and they have lost support in their singing, running, life saving escapades.

Heisenburg wrote:

Mimi wrote:It would be good to reflect on what government people, diplomats etc. have actually said (not what the McCanns said they said). I will look at this when I`m more awake.

We know MI5 have intervened at some points, GA reckons this.  But MI5 are not the government, though I would bet they control the government to some extent.

Remember GCHQ has info on all of us.

Wasn't Mr Grime supposed to have been met at an airport by MI5? you can imagine the conversation,now then Grime dear chap what did the dogs find,in reply Mr Grime could only reply nothing with out forensics back up,agent:good man,under his breath adding there'll be no such thing.All imo of course.Which is where we are nigh on ten yrs down the line six of them under an investigation codenamed Operation Grange I'll use the term investigation loosely.

It beggars belief. I really want to see how this unfolds......TM keeping remarkably low profile....

Mo wrote:The OG can cover up all they like but I'm more interested in what the PJ have to say/release when this is all over. The Supreme Court ruling must have given the PJ confidence to come to their own conclusion whether OG agree or not. It will also be interesting to see what the BBC Panorama team were doing in Luz, they often make controversial documentaries. Judging by the desperate attempts by the MSM to try and sway people towards supporting the Mcc's (but failing miserably), this shows now how intense this case has become since the release of another £85,000. The Mcc's no doubt are pooing themselves because there is nothing being leaked and they have lost support in their singing, running, life saving escapades.

Are the Mcs still together?

They appear to have zero public support....

Interesting times ahead methinks....karma

I think they are still together. There was a picture posted on Twitter of them having a family meal in the Beefeater at Oakley Hay last Saturday.

poster wrote:

Mo wrote:The OG can cover up all they like but I'm more interested in what the PJ have to say/release when this is all over. The Supreme Court ruling must have given the PJ confidence to come to their own conclusion whether OG agree or not. It will also be interesting to see what the BBC Panorama team were doing in Luz, they often make controversial documentaries. Judging by the desperate attempts by the MSM to try and sway people towards supporting the Mcc's (but failing miserably), this shows now how intense this case has become since the release of another £85,000. The Mcc's no doubt are pooing themselves because there is nothing being leaked and they have lost support in their singing, running, life saving escapades.

Are the Mcs still together?

They appear to have zero public support....

Interesting times ahead methinks....karma

Until death. They dare not separate.

Unless the poop hits the fan.

Then they will start pointing the finger at each other with the respective clans behind them, imo.

Bampots wrote:Its a review which according to Stephenson will never see the light of day?

It's remit changed from a review to a full blown investigation. There must have been good reason for this imo.

Dee Coy wrote:Unless the poop hits the fan.

Then they will start pointing the finger at each other with the respective clans behind them, imo.

It will/would be interesting to see who the supporters would favour.

Simply question,OG where are they investigating exactly,the crime was committed in Portugal the alleged last throw of the dice is supposed to be some one out there now unless the officers from grange are out in the sun how on earth can it be valid?

I've just seen this recent poll as mentioned as it's advertised on McTwitter.

So 41 members and socks (out of 7000 plus ) believe in a cover-up and absolutely nobody believes in justice.

Wow.

That's a lot of votes for one of their polls though.

Freedom wrote:That's a lot of votes for one of their polls though.

That's very true.

Well one would think that with the influx of hundreds of new members a month that are created registered, then they might be able to ramp up the voting numbers up a bit.

Heisenburg wrote:Simply question,OG where are they investigating exactly,the crime was committed in Portugal the alleged last throw of the dice is supposed to be some one out there now unless the officers from grange are out in the sun how on earth can it be valid?

Its a question that I've asked a couple of times but never had a convincing answer from the people that believe Grange to be genuine. Having said that; despite the spin from the UK msm, they can't be investigating a crime in Portugal because they have no jurisdiction so it must be something in the UK. The fund's auditors, a firm that specialises in auditing not for profit companies like the fund, have just resigned haven't they? Perhaps its just a coincidence

AndyB wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Simply question,OG where are they investigating exactly,the crime was committed in Portugal the alleged last throw of the dice is supposed to be some one out there now unless the officers from grange are out in the sun how on earth can it be valid?

Its a question that I've asked a couple of times but never had a convincing answer from the people that believe Grange to be genuine. Having said that; despite the spin from the UK msm, they can't be investigating a crime in Portugal because they have no jurisdiction so it must be something in the UK. The fund's auditors, a firm that specialises in auditing not for profit companies like the fund, have just resigned haven't they? Perhaps its just a coincidence

There is a mass of stuff they can investigate here, which the Portuguese can't, as they the PJ don't have jurisdiction here the same as Op Grange don't have over there. That is why they are working together, so although the crime happened over there, many of the people there that night and that week or previously were British as we know, not only the Tapas 9 but many others who gave statements, so much background checking to work on I would presume.

It takes six years for that? as the radio interviewer asked of Hogan Howe in April 2016,just what do 30+ officers do?

Just a reminder of something from last year.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/668155/Madeleine-McCann-police-ignored-Detectives-waited-five-months-Scotland-Yard-leads

candyfloss wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Simply question,OG where are they investigating exactly,the crime was committed in Portugal the alleged last throw of the dice is supposed to be some one out there now unless the officers from grange are out in the sun how on earth can it be valid?

Its a question that I've asked a couple of times but never had a convincing answer from the people that believe Grange to be genuine. Having said that; despite the spin from the UK msm, they can't be investigating a crime in Portugal because they have no jurisdiction so it must be something in the UK. The fund's auditors, a firm that specialises in auditing not for profit companies like the fund, have just resigned haven't they? Perhaps its just a coincidence

There is a mass of stuff they can investigate here

Like what? Which mass of crimes have been committed in the UK by the T9 for the Met to investigate? The Met don't investigate stuff just because its fun or interesting or because another police force asked them to. They only investigate crime that they have jurisdiction over. And if that's not what they're doing then the question becomes "why?"

I think you're massively overplaying the cooperation card: Yes, there may be some but if they're cooperating on the level that you seem to believe, why all the rogatory letters? And why did the Met go to PdL in a blaze of publicity when the PJ could've done whatever it was that they did for them? And why are the Met (reportedly) trying to get their hands on stuff for forensics that could be done by the PJ?

AndyB wrote:

candyfloss wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Simply question,OG where are they investigating exactly,the crime was committed in Portugal the alleged last throw of the dice is supposed to be some one out there now unless the officers from grange are out in the sun how on earth can it be valid?

Its a question that I've asked a couple of times but never had a convincing answer from the people that believe Grange to be genuine. Having said that; despite the spin from the UK msm, they can't be investigating a crime in Portugal because they have no jurisdiction so it must be something in the UK. The fund's auditors, a firm that specialises in auditing not for profit companies like the fund, have just resigned haven't they? Perhaps its just a coincidence

There is a mass of stuff they can investigate here

Like what? Which mass of crimes have been committed in the UK by the T9 for the Met to investigate? The Met don't investigate stuff just because its fun or interesting or because another police force asked them to. They only investigate crime that they have jurisdiction over. And if that's not what they're doing then the question becomes "why?"

I think you're massively overplaying the cooperation card: Yes, there may be some but if they're cooperating on the level that you seem to believe, why all the rogatory letters? And why did the Met go to PdL in a blaze of publicity when the PJ could've done whatever it was that they did for them? Andy why are the Met (reportedly) trying to get their hands on stuff for forensics that could be done by the PJ?

Where has this 'why are they getting their hands on forensics come from'?? People don' t have to commit crime to be investigated, that is the case in any investigation, when they start investigating people. 9 times out of 10 they haven't committed any crimes previously, that is why there is much research and background checking to do. Rogatory letters have to be sent out as a matter of course and for legality, if it transpired that the police were doing something for the PJ that was not requested through the proper channels then I expect if anything went to trial at a later date that would be used as a defence and pointed out that things were not done by the book. Why do people read things into the work they do that simply aren't there?

I know people don't have to commit crime to be investigated but there has to be a crime in the first place! With Madeleine's disappearance there isn't one in the UK (unless she was murdered by a British person of course).

With respect Candyfloss I'm not the one reading stuff that isn't there, you are - there is simply no evidence for the cooperation that you believe exists. All I'm doing is looking at things logically: The Met cannot investigate anything that isn't a crime within their jurisdiction. As there is no crime within their jurisdiction related to Madeleine's disappearance, then they cannot be investigating that, despite what they and the msm would have us believe

Edited to add: re getting their hands on forensics - http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/hair-strands-during-original-madeleine-mccann-investigation-never-dna-matched-9825210.html

Well, yes as thought, that DNA info was from a newspaper... but in any case, it is the Portuguese that have allegedly said that.


snipped

“Several possibilities are open. One could be that British police do the tests in Britain with British technology and another that the institute does them.

“But that’s an area in which the institute does not have the last word. There’s a situation of judicial cooperation and a new international letter of request would be necessary.”


Again note things by the book - rogatory letter required.

As for a crime being investigated, then we know something happened to Madeleine, all the people in PDL needed speaking to, many were British. The Met would have no doubt re interviewed them all, including the Tapas 7 and the McCanns. We also know that during the original investigation a lot of information was sought by the PJ but only had a foolscap sheet of paper back with very few details. This has now probably been looked into much further too. There must be hundreds of leads they have looked into and chased up, each one has to be elimated.

The Met just cannot win can they, when they go over to work with the PJ they are called all manner of things and going on holiday, if they don't then there is no co operation.. People say they haven't interviewed the Tapas 7 or McCanns, how on earth do they know that? Do they expect announcements made, if they did it would cause media mayhem.

My hope for Madeleine is that the PJ and Met are working closely and due to the length of this investigation, in my mind there can only be one answer, and that is they are hoping to bring it to a conclusion, a whitewash, cover up, call it what you like could have been done and dusted very quickly, and the Portuguese would have had no need to reopen their end.

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