Operation Grange

Andrew wrote:Colin Sutton‏ @colinsutton  2h2 hours ago
Replying to @spudgun01 @walkercan1000 @TheGavofWar
Nobody ordered me to find McCanns innocent as Mail put it.I was advised I wouldn't have freedom to investigate everybody & every possibility

Yes, that is more likely, however why is he telling us all this now, he retired at the time so he was free to speak then, why nearly  6 years on.  Perhaps someone can ask him if they are on twitter.

dogs don't lie wrote:That's pretty shocking from CS  I wonder when he was told this? Haven't had the time to keep up with all this news due to new job but I'm doing my best, there's just so much!

It is shocking and explains a lot.The case is most definitely political - to not give a police force freedom to investigate properly is outrageous, to say the least. Mind you, any self respecting police officer or detective should, IMO,
refuse to touch such a case - good for him

Heisenburg wrote:Wiltshire Chief Constable Mike Veale  talking about investigations into allegations regarding E Heath had this to say.

The legal role of the police service is to, on behalf of the public, impartially investigate allegations without fear or favour, and go where the evidence takes us.’

What say you DCI Wall.

Still stands.

I don't think it's all over yet. OG looks likely to end without finding any evidence of an abduction. If they wanted a whitewash they had the  perfect pasty, a poor petty criminal who had a drug addiction and here comes the motive, was a disgruntled ex-employee of The Ocean Club. Making it even easier to set up, he died in a tractor accident! I honestly think the clock starts ticking when OG ends without finding any evidence of an abduction. Then it's in the hands of the PJ and I really don't believe they will make the same mistakes twice. Tick tock...

Heisenburg wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Wiltshire Chief Constable Mike Veale  talking about investigations into allegations regarding E Heath had this to say.

The legal role of the police service is to, on behalf of the public, impartially investigate allegations without fear or favour, and go where the evidence takes us.’

What say you DCI Wall.

Still stands.

I really don't want to sound pessimistic here Heisenberg, but did Ms Wall actually take over from Andy Redwood ........I seriously have my doubts here.

Agree with that, doc.

Maybe the OG remit was actually not to look at the parents and tapas group. But to look at everything else as regards to an 'abduction' (as if it happened in the UK).

Only then they can rule out the 'abduction', hand everything on a platter to the PJ for full steam ahead...

Or is that too optimistic again?

costello wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:Wiltshire Chief Constable Mike Veale  talking about investigations into allegations regarding E Heath had this to say.

The legal role of the police service is to, on behalf of the public, impartially investigate allegations without fear or favour, and go where the evidence takes us.’

What say you DCI Wall.

Still stands.

I really don't want to sound pessimistic here Heisenberg, but did Ms Wall actually take over from Andy Redwood ........I seriously have my doubts here.

I think she did take over, but there is nothing to show that she is still actively involved.
A DCI is not usually deployed in charge of a team of 4. I suspect she is in charge of a full murder team and OG is very much a side issue for her.

Here's my (overly) optimistic take on things. I agree that OG was set up to look at all possibilities EXCEPT the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. What does that suggest to me?

That there is a parallel investigation which has been underway all along, which looks at the ONLY possibility being the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. Whether this investigation is in Portugal or the UK, I don't know. But why should we assume OG is the only active investigation into Madeleine's disappearance? And why should we assume that all of the funding money is exclusively going to OG? Could it not be going to fund a parallel and unpublicised investigation?

Helenmeg wrote:

dogs don't lie wrote:That's pretty shocking from CS  I wonder when he was told this? Haven't had the time to keep up with all this news due to new job but I'm doing my best, there's just so much!

It is shocking and explains a lot.The case is most definitely political - to not give a police force freedom to investigate properly is outrageous, to say the least.  Mind you, any self respecting police officer or detective should, IMO,
refuse to touch such a case - good for him

Don't forget it was a while ago at the review stage, and as I said why has he not said anything before now though? Why allow it to go on for 6 years? Why has he suddenly opened up for Brunt and this documentary, so many questions.

canada12 wrote:Here's my (overly) optimistic take on things. I agree that OG was set up to look at all possibilities EXCEPT the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. What does that suggest to me?

That there is a parallel investigation which has been underway all along, which looks at the ONLY possibility being the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. Whether this investigation is in Portugal or the UK, I don't know. But why should we assume OG is the only active investigation into Madeleine's disappearance? And why should we assume that all of the funding money is exclusively going to OG? Could it not be going to fund a parallel and unpublicised investigation?

Hi canada12 - if only

Good post, Canada.

I can relate/go with that as well.

Me too.

Oh, never thought of that, kinda brought back the memory of the 4 dogs instead of 2 when OG was in Portugal

Exactly, ddl. 4 divide by 2 is.... Err.... Basically 2 teams.

One for show and take the scent off. And one to get down to business and concentrate on the scent.

Possibly.

So much optimism which is good... I wish I could share in it... Maybe tomorrow

What's_up_doc? wrote:

Andrew wrote:

canada12 wrote:Here's my (overly) optimistic take on things. I agree that OG was set up to look at all possibilities EXCEPT the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. What does that suggest to me?

That there is a parallel investigation which has been underway all along, which looks at the ONLY possibility being the involvement of the parents and the Tapas friends. Whether this investigation is in Portugal or the UK, I don't know. But why should we assume OG is the only active investigation into Madeleine's disappearance? And why should we assume that all of the funding money is exclusively going to OG? Could it not be going to fund a parallel and unpublicised investigation?

Good post, Canada.

I can relate/go with that as well.

Me too.

i
By now I think OG must have a pretty clear idea of what happened. I bet some people have 'squeaked' too but have been granted anonymity.

This is the most extraordinary thing to have said, imo:

The officer added that however Madeleine left the apartment, she was abducted.

“She wasn’t old enough to make a decision to set off and start her own life,” he said.


What on earth does s/he mean? Given that Madeleine was not yet four years old? What nearly four year old 'makes a decision to set off and start her own life?'

Really strange thing to say.

Dust it down, slice it up... Or whatever, then OG know exactly what's what.

They know it's all a farce.

But can they prove it's all a farce..

I dont know... but they have all the time in the world to quietly get on with trying to get the proof they need. Is that what they are doing?
I really really hope so?

They can play the Mc CANNS like a violin if they so wish.. they can watch their reactions to everything - a little poke here and there... I wish we knew!!!!!
I wish we had a fly on the wall of O Grange HQ

One reason I seem to think that the Wall is actually working hard on this is that  - before she was seconded to Op Grange - you could do a search on her in the Met website and see her name
mentioned on various cases that she'd worked on. Whenever I do that search now her name never comes up ... if she was on Op Grange in name only and not actually actively working on the case - we would see her name crop up
relating to other cases... iykwim

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH - I spoke too soon!!!!! She is doing other things... take a look at link/.
http://news.met.police.uk/news/reward-offered-in-harlesden-murder-investigation-196594

November 2016 Detective Chief Inspector Nicola Wall of the HMCC, leading the investigation, said: "We are appealing for anyone who may have been in the area to come forward and speak to us.

"There may have been pedestrians or motorists in the area passing through at the time of the shooting or witnesses who hold a valuable piece of information. I would urge them to come forward as soon as possible."

A £10,000 reward is being offered by Crimestoppers and will be available to anyone providing information to Crimestoppers leading to the arrest and conviction of any person or persons responsible for the murder of James Owusu-Agyekum.

I'm really annoyed now- So DCI Wall is leading other investigations as well as Mc Cann... meaning she is not totally focused on Mc Cann -we are being conned left right and center

Was it ever said that this was the one and only case that she would be overseeing?

That would surely be unusual - admittedly everything about the McCann is just that.

When there were several officers working on Grange a dedicated supervisor made sense, now that there are only a few, logic says that supervisor could deal with other cases as well.

I wouldn't worry or read much into that, Helenmeg.

It stands to reason that she'll be involved in/overseeing other cases as well.

Her work is probably completed re: the McCann case. And probably was a long time ago.

Or she got fed up with her arms tied behind her back and got on with some proper policing/investigating elsewhere......

Although I'd go with the first option myself. Her work is done.

Imo etc.

Helenmeg wrote:I'm really annoyed now- So DCI Wall is leading other investigations as well as Mc Cann... meaning she is not totally focused on Mc Cann -we are being conned left right and center

Be realistic, she runs a murder squad of several dozen police officers. We are told there are only 4 people now involved on OG. Of course she is going to be heavily involved in other crime investigations.

OK Ok - points taken