The Mystery of Ben Needham

Andrew wrote:Ashes.... What were they burning then?

Christine said: “I was fussing over him, telling him to stop playing with the tools.

What tools exactly...?

I can't find anything on the ashes only this regarding the tools

Copied:

Best of all, Dad and Michaelis had bags and boxes of the most exotic-looking tools. As soon as one of them stepped up a ladder, Ben dived into their kit and took out a clamp or a spirit level or trowel. Mum was never more than a few feet behind, always reminding Ben, ‘Put that down. It’s not yours.’ Michaelis had a different response. ‘Christine, let the boy play.

Mo wrote:

Andrew wrote:Ashes.... What were they burning then?

Christine said: “I was fussing over him, telling him to stop playing with the tools.

What tools exactly...?

I can't find anything on the ashes only this regarding the tools

Copied:

Best of all, Dad and Michaelis had bags and boxes of the most exotic-looking tools. As soon as one of them stepped up a ladder, Ben dived into their kit and took out a clamp or a spirit level or trowel. Mum was never more than a few feet behind, always reminding Ben, ‘Put that down. It’s not yours.’ Michaelis had a different response. ‘Christine, let the boy play.

Thanks, Mo.

I would of thought a clamp and a spirit level would of been too heavy for a toddler to pick up but anyway..

'let the boy play'.... I think that's exactly what they did and a tragic accident occurred. Imo.

I've not really paid too much attention to the Ben Needham case until now and am quite shocked that things are taking a turn towards the 'family'... but I do think that
statistics show that most of these cases do tend to end up being 'close to home'. What shocks me about this particular case is that the mother has come across as pretty genuine
and just hearing her on interviews would not necessarily make me suspicious of family involvement.  The same cannot be said regarding the Mc Cann case.

But now there are a number of key similarities between these 2 cases - so how one concludes may well have a bearing on how the other concludes

If there is cover up re Ben's case then I imagine it is to protect a member of the family who is in no way a danger to the general public.. but is Kerry aware?

For a long long time the two cases have been linked in peoples' minds - from the start of the McCann case there were the inevitable comparisons to the Needham case. I think that if the police can crack the Needham case, and it does turn out to be someone very well known to the family, if not part of the family, then it will necessarily impact peoples' opinions of the McCann case. After all, the Needham case has been held up as the primary example of a small child being "abducted" in a foreign land for yonks' years, and has given legitimacy to the claim by the McCanns that the same thing happened to Madeleine. If it's proved that Ben was never abducted at all, then that will of course impact how the McCann case is handled from now on.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ben-needham-case-hallmarks-cover-9161080


Angry Kerry, 43, said: “It infuriates me. It is just one big cover-up.

“When I spoke with the UK police and got a full update…they know what happened. They haven’t done this digging on a whim. It has been just one big smokescreen. They [the people on Kos] wanted us to go away, disappear and forget about Ben. They had an attitude that we were not worth helping.”

The Ben Needham case has all the hallmarks of a cover-up, a Mirror probe has found

I would agree.

Someone on the Textusa blog has been doing some research on the toy car etc.

It appears that that particular model was made in 1968..

http://www.planetdiecast.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=the-return-of-summer-sm-summer-metal-list.html&Itemid=2435

And as another commentator mentioned, would a 1968 model be sold in a shop in Kos in 1991?

Be almost like a collectors item by then.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but just found it quite interesting.

I would say this particular toy car was a hand me down from one of the Uncles. But why did Christine say she specifically went to a shop and bought 2 toy cars....

(but remember the insignificance of the 2 toy cars in the documentary - not knowing and not remembering etc)

I'm just musing and thinking aloud. The car business interests me.

I posted that on Textusa. I also posted it here on page 17, but I don't think people noticed.

I find it intriguing as well. The Summer cars were quite cheap new I believe, so quite affordable.
Would a tourist resort sell second hand toy cars? Or was it new 'old' stock?

SYP made such a song and dance about wanting to find the toy cars in 2012. Could that have made someone plant it in the last 4 years? And that someone then hinted about Dino's dump site?

Pure speculation of course.


And another thing. What became of the bucket and spade Ben was also playing with at the farmhouse? This was gifted to him by Monica, a friend of Christines.

Take it for what it is worth ... IF I were a DCI I would not only look for evidence/traces, but would also try and provoke to get reactions to my actions. IYKWIM :-)

seahorse wrote:

Andrew wrote:Someone on the Textusa blog has been doing some research on the toy car etc.

It appears that that particular model was made in 1968..

http://www.planetdiecast.com/index.php?option=com_myblog&show=the-return-of-summer-sm-summer-metal-list.html&Itemid=2435

And as another commentator mentioned, would a 1968 model be sold in a shop in Kos in 1991?

Be almost like a collectors item by then.

Not sure where I'm going with this, but just found it quite interesting.

I would say this particular toy car was a hand me down from one of the Uncles. But why did Christine say she specifically went to a shop and bought 2 toy cars....

(but remember the insignificance of the 2 toy cars in the documentary - not knowing and not remembering etc)

I'm just musing and thinking aloud. The car business interests me.

I posted that on Textusa. I also posted it here on page 17, but I don't think people noticed.

I find it intriguing as well. The Summer cars were quite cheap new I believe, so quite affordable.
Would a tourist resort sell second hand toy cars? Or was it new 'old' stock?

SYP made such a song and dance about wanting to find the toy cars in 2012. Could that have made someone plant it in the last 4 years? And that someone then hinted about Dino's dump site?

Pure speculation of course.


And another thing. What became of the bucket and spade Ben was also playing with at the farmhouse? This was gifted to him by Monica, a friend of Christines.

Interesting but unless SYP lied about where and when they found this car then I doubt that. Supposedly the car was found effectively on the last day under hundreds of tonnes of rubble and then down a further 2-3 feet in compacted dirt. I doubt anyone could/would go to that much trouble to plant a car. I must say though the picture of the actual car does look in remarkable condition given how long and how much weight it would have been under. It really doesn't looked crushed much/at all.

I also sense a bit of defensiveness in the latest articles. Maybe just me?

Apologies, Seahorse. I must of missed it on here when you mentioned it before. Some good work you've done there then to seek more info about this particular toy car.

I wouldn't rule it out but I would agree with, TTWO, that it would be unlikely that someone planted it. Surely the archaeologists / experts would be able to tell if the ground had been deliberately disturbed to execute such a plant. But then again we know very little so you never know I guess.

I think the mood attitude will change myself, TTWO, and it will become the Needhams versus SYP. If you know what I mean. So there will be articles to come that there at 'loggerheads' etc.

ETA - forgot all about the bucket and spade

Must admit I know little about the bucket and spade? Did they disappear along with the cars and shorts? If not then what became of them or what has been said about them over the years?

Absolutely no idea about the bucket and spade and what happened to them.

Just that it was a present and he was apparently playing with them prior to going missing.

I think it was mentioned on here before about the unlikelihood of an abductor taking the time to collect Ben's shorts from wherever they were hanging. This is what makes me think that there's a reason why the green shorts seem to be important. Did something happen that involved the green shorts and it's important that they NOT be found?

I just don't think an opportunistic abductor, with or without a white car, would risk being seen a moment longer than necessary. And getting out of the car to retrieve the shorts, which may or may not be hanging within sight of the people in the house, would seem to me to be unnecessarily risky.

Which takes me back to my original thought. The reason, many believe, Madeleine's body had to be "disappeared" is because of what an autopsy might have uncovered.

Might there be similar reasons for Ben's body not to be recovered? And especially the green shorts?

Mum left the others and walked casually through the house. She didn’t call Ben, not at first. She expected to see him crouched down with his bucket and spade and mound of ants or a pile of sand. Things like that could hold his attention for ages. It was perfectly normal he’d go quiet.

Now Ben had apparently never been to the farmhouse before that fateful day. So did Christine take this bucket and spade from the caravan in his pushchair? I just seem to recall that his only toys were his 2 little cars that she brought with him....? No mention of bringing the bucket and spade as well. Although Eddie could've brought them up in the land rover but then he didn't know they were coming over.

Just musing, again.

I'll have a look for the bucket and spade and shorts


Nothing much about the bucket and spade or shorts

The caravan was fifteen minutes from Psalidi beach, so that’s where we all headed. As many happy memories as I had of the dunes and shelters at Chapel, Psalidi was out of this world. Watching Ben busy with his bucket and spade, or making friends with the few other people out in April, made my heart swell. He was so content, so happy to mess around in the surf with his uncles, or introduce himself to strangers. There could not have been a prouder mummy.

Mum left the others and walked casually through the house. She didn’t call Ben, not at first. She expected to see him crouched down with his bucket and spade and mound of ants or a pile of sand. Things like that could hold his attention for ages. It was perfectly normal that he’d go quiet.

The only thing mentioned about the shorts is them being hung on the tree, not even anything about them going missing?  I would have thought theses three items would be crucial to the case.

Thanks Mo.

Of course those items are crucial to the case. But for whatever reason the Needhams didn't think so.

Was the shorts mentioned in the somebody knows documentary? I can't recall and too lazy to watch it again now.

Yes the shorts are mentioned in quite a bit of detail, Andrew.

Christine does a sort of mini reconstruction of her arrival at the farmhouse where she shows exactly where/how the shorts were hung and also tells Eddie that Ben wet his shorts and he says I thought he was playing with the hose/water (paraphrased).

I wonder why she insisted he wet his shorts versus getting them wet playing with the hose also told? All this 10 years later.

Also Eddie "finding" a car on the ground near the farmhouse prompting Christine to tell Eddie for the first time that Ben had 2 cars with him that disappeared in the same doc....

I actually went and had a look myself. About 6 and a half mins in. Seen it now about 3 or 4 times but there's still bits that I didn't pick up on at the time.

The white socks he was wearing? Never heard about those going missing as well.... Has anyone else?

And the T-shirt is green back then according to Christine (about 7.00 in).

Yes, the whole toy car episode in it is just bizarre, TTWO.

Copied:

Her voice was shaking and Dad could tell from her face she was serious. He leapt up and sent Danny one way, asked Michaelis to help him check the outbuildings, and told Mum to look again at the road in case he’d made it that far.

I don't remember Eddie mentioning Michaelis in the documentary or checking outbuildings only going through the fields. I've looked at the photo from 1991 but can't see any outbuildings.

The tee-shirt was white with a green pattern - no mention of putting him on white socks. I had just realised Christine took the dog with her. Surely if anybody had turned up at the farm it would have barked or gone to have a look?

Copied:

Mum was very close to catching a bus into Kos Town but at the last minute decided it would be nice to push Ben up to see his granddad and uncle working at the farmhouse. Iraklis was about a forty-minute walk and most of it was uphill. Mum was fit enough. Danny wasn’t at school and he’d be okay with the distance. In fact, Mum was more worried about Ben the corgi’s little legs managing the walk with them in the midday sun.

Out of interest what ever happened to the little dog?

Yes - years later we are told the T-shirt was white with a green motif. It also had buttons. They went missing along with his 2 toy cars and green shorts and the sandals he was wearing. That's it as far as I know.

1991 - his T-shirt was green. He was also wearing white socks. Eddie didn't know about the 2 toy cars and Christine only had her memory jogged of them as Eddie practically tripped up over one in the doc.

All so weird

Christine took the pushchair and the dog home. I should have remembered the dog it was called Ben.