Re: McCanns "not in the clear" - removal of their "formal suspect" status does not mean they are innocent, judges say

**candyfloss** Thu 09 Feb 2017, 9:25 pm

canada12 wrote:You can bet with the 10th anniversary looming, and all those interviewers clamoring to talk to the blessed couple, there will be questions like this asked: "So, what do you have to say about the ruling from the Portuguese court which basically reiterates that you were not declared innocent, there was merely not enough evidence to pursue the case against you? And how do you reconcile this with your claim, over the past number of years, that you were cleared by the Portguese police, when this, in fact, was not true?"

Aye, I expect that is why there was a bidding war Wink

I just can't see them taking up any offers now - how can they avoid the questions. Unless of course they choose Lorraine who doesn't ask 'searching questions'

Châtelaine Thu 09 Feb 2017, 9:28 pm

I'm reminded of Dr. Amaral: "Justice works in silence".

espeland Fri 10 Feb 2017, 7:44 am

Helenmeg wrote:OG / the Government / T May have had months to plan their course of action regarding this, They have been waiting for the Supreme Justice Court to give their verdict on the appeal for
a long time. Any moves they make have been well planned by now. I dont think it will be a case of 'what do we do now' - it will be orchestrated. And I wouldn't mind betting that the broadcast of Moorside
was planned to coincide with this. I think it will be one thing after another now... to reach a conclusion in March. There will have been some top brain-power working on this - it will be a full attack..

A very interesting post, Helenmeg. The only point I'd make is that because funding is available till the end of March doesn't mean that all that time has to be used - if only for the sake of the children.

AndyB Fri 10 Feb 2017, 7:59 am

candyfloss wrote:
espeland wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
dogs don't lie wrote:Wonder what NWs doing now?

I was just going to say the same, plus what are Operation Grange detectives thinking of doing now? They are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. They will be pushed on their thoughts and of course they won't want to be giving anything away. Very difficult situation all round, I think this is the final round now. Either the Supreme Court waited as Op Grange were ready to end, or Op Grange has been pushed into the uncomfortable position of having to respond or act.

I disagree. OG have always been very quiet - as have, almost, the PJ. The police are likely to want to keep their true thoughts, plans and actions away from the McCanns and to do that meant keeping it away from us too - hence the claims of whitewash etc. If OG have been responsible only for clearing up some of the reported sightings, that will help the PJ in any future court case. The PJ said words to the effect that the two teams are working well together, and that is what I meant when I said the PJ have almost been quiet.

It seems sensible that OG have been waiting for the SC ruling - many people here have been commenting on how public reaction is changing - and the Leicester Mercury is one of the most McCann-friendly papers around!

I think that is what I was trying to say, so no disagreement, but the media will push for answers to the Portuguese Supreme Court findings, and you cannot blame them it is their job to do so. Operation Grange are going to have to come out and say something this time, this is too serious and will have to make some sort of statement imo. The question will be asked again if the McCanns are suspects, it will be interesting to hear their answers... or perhaps they will make their move. It surely cannot go on.......

Re the bold bit - why? Why not "Operation Grange is an ongoing operation and so we will be making no comment"

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 8:50 am

..... Just to answer my own question from yest. I saw a copy of the Sun last night and there it all was.... On page 11. But it was there for all to see in black and white.

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:00 am

Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet... scratch

AndyB Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:24 am

Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...

I don't understand why people are conflating a civil procedure in a foreign jurisdiction with a criminal investigation in the UK. It isn't even clear if the PT SC ruling will have any impact at all on civil proceedings here, e.g. the ability of publishers to release The Truth of the Lie in English here. (It isn't just you, I think most people here are doing the same).

As far as I can see nothing has changed as far as Grange is concerned and it carries on doing whatever it is that its supposed to be doing

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:32 am

Boo.. Hiss... again, AndyB. Very Happy

Of course it's a massive deal which ever way you slice it. The momentum is there now to really get things concluded. And it will be as it has to be.

It doesn't matter how many pairs of socks over the way will say otherwise, there is only 1 outcome... And that was decided a long time ago.

IMO etc.

**candyfloss** Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:35 am

AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...
I don't understand why people are conflating a civil procedure in a foreign jurisdiction with a criminal investigation in the UK. It isn't even clear if the PT SC ruling will have any impact at all on civil proceedings here, e.g. the ability of publishers to release The Truth of the Lie in English here. (It isn't just you, I think most people here are doing the same).

As far as I can see nothing has changed as far as Grange is concerned and it carries on doing whatever it is that its supposed to be doing

You only have to look at the reporting of the media and press in the last few months to see things have changed. Even the comments are now not being pulled after articles. I can't see it just being coincidence.

unreorganised Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:49 am

candyfloss wrote:
You only have to look at the reporting of the media and press in the last few months to see things have changed. Even the comments are now not being pulled after articles. I can't see it just being coincidence.

Why would you "investigate" any crime in that fashion though? Does anybody have any other examples?

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 9:53 am

unreorganised wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
You only have to look at the reporting of the media and press in the last few months to see things have changed. Even the comments are now not being pulled after articles. I can't see it just being coincidence.

Why would you "investigate" any crime in that fashion though? Does anybody have any other examples?

It's unprecedented.

The sheer magnitude of it all is something that's never really been seen before.

costello Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:12 am

Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...

I always appreciate your optimism Andrew. I am really pleased with all the 'excitement' in the press over the last few days. However what does worry me is, if by chance the McCanns are arrested? surely with all that's been published,they could claim an unfair trial! I still see them setting up a new life overseas. Just my thoughts as ever.

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:15 am

costello wrote:
Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...

I always appreciate your optimism Andrew. I am really pleased with all the 'excitement' in the press over the last few days. However what does worry me is, if by chance the McCanns are arrested? surely with all that's been published,they could claim an unfair trial! I still see them setting up a new life overseas. Just my thoughts as ever.

If they get summoned to Portugal to face trial and all the evidence is nicely in place, then there's not diddly squat they can do about that...

Fair or unfair.

costello Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:20 am

Andrew wrote:
costello wrote:
Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...

I always appreciate your optimism Andrew. I am really pleased with all the 'excitement' in the press over the last few days. However what does worry me is, if by chance the McCanns are arrested? surely with all that's been published,they could claim an unfair trial! I still see them setting up a new life overseas. Just my thoughts as ever.

If they get summoned to Portugal to face trial and all the evidence is nicely in place, then there's not diddly squat they can do about that...

Fair or unfair.

Now that is what I am 'hoping' will happen.

**candyfloss** Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:23 am

I know this is posted in Discussion section but a link should be here to......

Mari Welzel ‏@umweltbuerger ·
TEXTUSA SISTERS POSTED:
Friday, 10 February 2017
"Game changer"
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2017/02/game-changer.html

chirpyinsect Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:30 am

candyfloss wrote:I know this is posted in Discussion section but a link should be here to......

Mari Welzel ‏@umweltbuerger ·
TEXTUSA SISTERS POSTED:
Friday, 10 February 2017
"Game changer"
http://textusa.blogspot.com/2017/02/game-changer.html

I wish I had the patience.

AndyB Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:39 am

candyfloss wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...
I don't understand why people are conflating a civil procedure in a foreign jurisdiction with a criminal investigation in the UK. It isn't even clear if the PT SC ruling will have any impact at all on civil proceedings here, e.g. the ability of publishers to release The Truth of the Lie in English here. (It isn't just you, I think most people here are doing the same).

As far as I can see nothing has changed as far as Grange is concerned and it carries on doing whatever it is that its supposed to be doing
You only have to look at the reporting of the media and press in the last few months to see things have changed. Even the comments are now not being pulled after articles. I can't see it just being coincidence.

I agree *something* has changed in the way that the media report things - the comments being left in like you say and GA is no longer described as a "sardine munching bungling cop" but a retired detective, sometimes even a senior detective. Clearly there is something driving that change. Whether its what's been happening with the libel trial in Portugal or something else is moot but what I can't see is a causal link between the Supreme Court verdict and any change in behaviour by Grange. Why on earth would the SC verdict have any impact on Grange?

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:47 am

AndyB wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
AndyB wrote:
Andrew wrote:Just googled 'McCanns and Arrested'....

Can't seem to find anything just yet...
I don't understand why people are conflating a civil procedure in a foreign jurisdiction with a criminal investigation in the UK. It isn't even clear if the PT SC ruling will have any impact at all on civil proceedings here, e.g. the ability of publishers to release The Truth of the Lie in English here. (It isn't just you, I think most people here are doing the same).

As far as I can see nothing has changed as far as Grange is concerned and it carries on doing whatever it is that its supposed to be doing
You only have to look at the reporting of the media and press in the last few months to see things have changed. Even the comments are now not being pulled after articles. I can't see it just being coincidence.
I agree *something* has changed in the way that the media report things - the comments being left in like you say and GA is no longer described as a "sardine munching bungling cop" but a retired detective, sometimes even a senior detective. Clearly there is something driving that change. Whether its what's been happening with the libel trial in Portugal or something else is moot but what I can't see is a causal link between the Supreme Court verdict and any change in behaviour by Grange. Why on earth would the SC verdict have any impact on Grange?

The 15 million pound question. But it was needed to progress and conclude.

chirpyinsect Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:47 am

Andyb. Do you think there is any possibility that things have been held up because someone knew, or at least had a very good idea that GA would be vindicated?
I'm thinking ( if both investigations are legit) that they felt empathy for a fellow cop who deserved to have his reputation restored. If they had arrested the perps, GA might not then get his recompense.
I'm not suggesting that the verdict was manipulated in any way, just that timing was important. We shall see how the case is expedited now.

AndyB Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:54 am

chirpyinsect wrote:Andyb. Do you think there is any possibility that things have been held up because someone knew, or at least had a very good idea that GA would be vindicated?
I'm thinking ( if both investigations are legit) that they felt empathy for a fellow cop who deserved to have his reputation restored. If they had arrested the perps, GA might not then get his recompense.
I'm not suggesting that the verdict was manipulated in any way, just that timing was important. We shall see how the case is expedited now.

That's a very big "if" and not one that i necessarily agree with, but to answer your question, yes, of course its possible, but I think it very unlikely. It would though explain what the one last lead that Grange were following was - a non-existent one to keep the press at bay pending the outcome of the SC decision

niklasericson Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:57 am

Denmark:
Note the headline, "Does the parents hide a dark secret"

http://www.bt.dk/udland/stadig-ikke-renset-gemmer-maddies-foraeldre-paa-en-moerk-hemmelighed

Germany:
http://m.bild.de/news/ausland/maddie-mccann/madeleine-mccann-maddie-eltern-offiziell-noch-nicht-unschuldig-50181532.bildMobile.html?wtmc=mw

South Africa:
https://www.ecr.co.za/shows/damon-beard/madeleine-mccanns-parents-suspects-her-disappearance/

More Dutch:
http://m.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/article/27592408/’onschuld-ouders-maddie-niet-bewezen’

Slovenia:
http://novice.najdi.si/predogled/novica/484fb0e35a346969b25b415dca00ff1c/Svet24-si/Svet/Starša-Madeleine-McCann-tega-res-nista-hotela-slišati

Poe Fri 10 Feb 2017, 11:39 am

I wonder whether the search for Ben Needham last year was an attempt to close the case before the conclusion of the McCann case.

Of the parents of the three most famous missing UK child cases: Karen Matthews is reviled and the McCanns seemed to be headed for the same fate. Kerry (unless she is an outstanding actress) is not connected to her son's disappearance so doesn't deserve that kind of contempt. Perhaps last year was a big, but ultimately unsuccessful, push to get Kerry safely out of the picture.

Just speculation.

Andrew Fri 10 Feb 2017, 2:49 pm

https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/cmtv-debate-on-supreme-court-ruling-and.html

costello Fri 10 Feb 2017, 3:13 pm

Andrew wrote:https://joana-morais.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/cmtv-debate-on-supreme-court-ruling-and.html

Brilliant, that does sum it up well for me. A reconstruction of events was all that was needed. Why didn't anyone in the UK or Portugal for that matter insure that this was paramount to the investigation. Hmm...

Châtelaine Fri 10 Feb 2017, 3:22 pm

costello wrote:[ [...]

Brilliant, that does sum it up well for me. A reconstruction of events was all that was needed. Why didn't anyone in the UK or Portugal for that matter insure that this was paramount to the investigation. Hmm...

***
Have you read the correspondence between PJ & McCs and friends?
I've never seen such evasive words to decline ...

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McCanns "not in the clear" - removal of their "formal suspect" status does not mean they are innocent, judges say