Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Another couple of articles with Mrs Fenn from    

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html

At the age 81 the quietness of this retired British woman seems to have been seriously shaken, after an outburst at the hairdresser, the news that she was a witness in Maddie's process quickly reached the journalists' ears. Pamela Fenn lives on the floor above apartment 5A from where the girl disappeared. According to what she might have told the police, on the day before Madeleine disappeared, that night, she heard the child crying and calling for her father for long minutes.

That, and the fact that she spends most time on the veranda with a view to the Tapas restaurant, made the police return to the Ocean Club on Monday morning. For about four hours the investigators were particularly interested to see if she had seen someone from the McCann group leave the restaurant to go check on the children, and on the content of the brief conversation that Pamela had with Maddie's mother on the night the girl disappeared.

Bothered to be under the journalists' sights, the English elderly denies being a witness in the process and ensures that what the press says is pure speculation.

Mrs Fenn: Honestly, I have... I know nothing. I have been here three months, until all this happened. I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in newspapers, I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighs)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it.

Presenter: As for the McCann couple they've a rented house in Praia da Luz until the second week of September. Despite having left attending the Ocean Club, Kate and Gerry continue to shop at the nearby supermarket. This Wednesday the car was parked a few meters from Robert Murat's door, the English businessman who still remains as the sole "arguido" in the process..........SIC news item 22 August 2007

That item talked about K and G , Mrs Fenn and RM....

Daily Star item says
But when the children's mother checked on them at 10pm she discovered Madeleine was missing and ran from the apartment screaming her daughter's name.

But police say they are not certain what happened between 6pm and 9pm. Pamela Fenn, 81, who owns the apartment above the McCanns', has given a sworn statement to police which apparently contradicts the couple's account of events.

She questioned the number of apparent checks and recalled how, during the initial panic, she offered to call the police.

She claims she was told by Kate they had already been contacted – but it later turned out the call was not made for another 40 minutes........

Hugely interesting as she offers to phone police ....Kate claims it's been done.....turns out it wasn't.

I've never read that Mrs Fenn and the mcs had tea and biscuits and a chat as txtusa says. Mrs Fenn doesn't seem to paint the mcs in good light and the mcs don't seem to paint Mrs Fenn in good light either. I know a lot don't think this, but I don't think checking was done on the 1st, especially if they were at Chaplins, the twins and others next door weren't crying when Maddie was, but maybe they'd had enough of anything that helped them sleep, fresh air or) Patio doors are easily distinguished from front doors also.
This is all in my opinion only.

Km's phone says she was in the apartment,if something was heard was it a flaming row?

Bampots wrote:Chirpyinsect wrote     "...could have harmed the search for a child..". That assumes abduction and if you believe death,as Textusa does ,then Mrs Fenn helps to push attention from death to abduction. Part of this deception is the flourishing of neglect,we must be made to think the parents were neglectful to shore up the abduction theory. So if Mrs Fenn is infact acting on behalf of Mccanns she helps promote neglect , crying alone for over an hour AND leaving the patio doors open. You try and report that happening in Britain tomorrow and see where it gets you!!

Bampots I don`t mean that there was an abduction when I said "could have harmed the search for the child." However if Mrs Fenn was lying she could only have been doing so to strengthen the parents` claim of neglect and to emphasise that M was alive that night. She would therefore have to have been instructed to do so by someone.
If she was not known to them, then as far as she was concerned when she initially spoke to the police, she would most likely have believed the parents claim of abduction. So I can think of no reason to have lied because that could have harmed the investigation in her eyes.
If she was instructed to say she heard crying why would she not just say it was for 10/20 minutes which still serves the purpose of establishing that it could have been M (alive if not happy) and corroborates the neglect aspect. ( but still within the bounds of their checks)
For it to have been 75minutes surely put the parents in danger of being charged with neglect/abandonment of their children. I doubt the Macs would have told her to say this so I am still on the side of her being truthful but 2 things are odd to me
1 Why did none of the other Tapas hear the crying on their frequent checks assuming they were keeping to the normal routine?
2 Why did PF not mention the incident to the parents maybe next morning or on the night of the abduction?
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"

From the article bampots posted

Mrs Fenn: Honestly, I have... I know nothing. I have been here three months, until all this happened. I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in newspapers, I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighs)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it.

I hadn't realised she had only lived there for 3 months..... am I reading it wrong. In that case then she probably wouldn't know many people at all at that age and probably not getting out too much - so quite likely she didn't know Mrs Murat well at all.

chirpyinsect wrote:
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"

The night of the reported incident,she leant over the balcony to find out what happened,not that reserved.

Admin wrote:
From the article bampots posted

Mrs Fenn: Honestly, I have... I know nothing. I have been here three months, until all this happened. I've never spoken to a journalist, they've written rubbish in newspapers, I've never even uttered a word! I've never (sighs)... it's all rubbish! Please, please, just forget it.

I hadn't realised she had only lived there for 3 months..... am I reading it wrong.  In that case then she probably wouldn't know many people at all at that age and probably not getting out too much - so quite likely she didn't know Mrs Murat well at all.

Take it on a stage or two,strange country,fluent in the language if yes all ok if no maybe some help needed.All realms of possibility's.

caricature wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"

The night of the reported incident,she leant over the balcony to find out what happened,not that reserved.

Nothing to do with reserved imo, if all hell was breaking loose in the apartment below and people coming and going, shouting etc., it would be the natural thing to shout down and ask what was happening.

Admin wrote:

caricature wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"

The night of the reported incident,she leant over the balcony to find out what happened,not that reserved.

Nothing to do with reserved imo, if all hell was breaking loose in the apartment below and people coming and going, shouting etc., it would be the natural thing to shout down and ask what was happening.

Not sure on that,she had no idea who was who.

She had lived there since 2003 apparently.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic37.html

@Chirpyinsect -
"but 2 things are odd to me
1 Why did none of the other Tapas hear the crying on their frequent checks assuming they were keeping to the normal routine?
2 Why did PF not mention the incident to the parents maybe next morning or on the night of the abduction?
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"


1. I think it`s well known that the more alcohol one drinks, the more laid back and separate from reality one becomes, all cares and worries seem far away - it could be the checks were virtually non existant at that time of night.  BUT Rachael Mampilly was supposedly ill on the Tuesday night and in the next apartment - can`t understand why she would not have heard Maddie crying (unless she knew KM was in there with her).

2. I can only think she was the type of lady that minded her own business - she seems it to me anyway.

PS Admin - IMO you`re making a judgement on what you would do at your age - doesn`t mean an 81 year old lady would do the same.

Freedom wrote:She had lived there since 2003 apparently.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic37.html

Perhaps the three months in bampots post refers to the three months after the incident.
Some one knew of her statement about the crying,who leaked this?
Some one who knew what she was going to say?

At the age 81 the quietness of this retired British woman seems to have been seriously shaken, after an outburst at the hairdresser, the news that she was a witness in Maddie's process quickly reached the journalists' ears. Pamela Fenn lives on the floor above apartment 5A from where the girl disappeared. According to what she might have told the police, on the day before Madeleine disappeared, that night, she heard the child crying and calling for her father for long minutes.

Mimi wrote:@Chirpyinsect -
"but 2 things are odd to me
1 Why did none of the other Tapas hear the crying on their frequent checks assuming they were keeping to the normal routine?
2 Why did PF not mention the incident to the parents maybe next morning or on the night of the abduction?
OK it is said she is reserved but she was concerned enough to call Edna so why not even a friendly mention along the lines of "I hope your little girl is better today. She sounded upset last night. Did she have a tummy ache?"


1. I think it`s well known that the more alcohol one drinks, the more laid back and separate from reality one becomes, all cares and worries seem far away - it could be the checks were virtually non existant at that time of night.  BUT Rachael Mampilly was supposedly ill on the Tuesday night and in the next apartment - can`t understand why she would not have heard Maddie crying (unless she knew KM was in there with her).

2. I can only think she was the type of lady that minded her own business - she seems it to me anyway.

PS Admin - IMO you`re making a judgement on what you would do at your age - doesn`t mean an 81 year old lady would do the same.

Or could it be that the children were all being looked after elsewhere as has been mooted. No checks were needed and the crying was either a tape and someone forgot to go and switch it off or M was the only child left alone( but I can`t believe that.)

caricature wrote:

Freedom wrote:She had lived there since 2003 apparently.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic37.html

Perhaps the three months in bampots post refers to the three months after the incident.
Some one knew of her statement about the crying,who leaked this?

I think she may have inadvertently let it slip to a journalist asking her questions or some one  she knew and they told a journalist.  She may then have realised/been told about judicial secrecy and harming the search etc. and backtracked to say she never said things.  imo

@mimi,

I don't think it matters what age you are Mimi, if bedlam is going on beneath you I think perhaps you would want to know what was happening?

You would especially lean over your own balcony rather than go down, for fear it may be dangerous.

She did mention in her statement that she didn't want to increase their suffering, maybe that's all it was.

Outburst in the hairdressers?

Maybe gossip in the hairdressers was speculating about the case and Mrs Fenn became exasperated and blurted out what she knew? I have read she made a statement to police which contradicted the official line of what happened that night.

If there were several people in the hairdressers it would only take a short time of them repeating what Mrs Fenn said to bring it to the attention of a journalist as they were still rife in the village.

Could this be how the leak occurred and, yes, Mrs Fenn became worried and backtracked as it could jeopardise the investigation?

candyfloss wrote:@mimi,

I don't think it matters what age you are Mimi, if bedlam is going on beneath you I think perhaps you would want to know what was happening?

You would especially lean over your own balcony rather than go down, for fear it may be dangerous.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere its almost impossible to look over the balcony to below.

caricature wrote:

candyfloss wrote:@mimi,

I don't think it matters what age you are Mimi, if bedlam is going on beneath you I think perhaps you would want to know what was happening?

You would especially lean over your own balcony rather than go down, for fear it may be dangerous.

I'm sure I've seen somewhere its almost impossible to look over the balcony to below.

Imo I think she could quite easily see people below and coming up and down the stairs to shout to them below.

candyfloss wrote:@mimi,

I don't think it matters what age you are Mimi, if bedlam is going on beneath you I think perhaps you would want to know what was happening?

You would especially lean over your own balcony rather than go down, for fear it may be dangerous.

Must be just me then. I`m not that nosey these days - I used to be though. I wouldn`t say it was bedlam but probably yes, I would have leaned over the balcony, and I would definitely have contacted the reception after about 20 mins of crying, not left it 75 mins. But Mrs. Fenn didn`t know if there was a parent in the apartment. (and it seems as if there was).

@ Candyfloss - "Imo I think she could quite easily see people below and coming up and down the stairs to shout to them below."

She`d have to go to the far western end of her balcony to see onto their balcony - she obviously did this on the night Maddie disappeared.  And yes she would have a good view of their steps.

AFAIC - An 81 year old wouldn`t land herself with a criminal conviction and risk being charged with perverting the course of justice, unless of course she was able to be blackmailed over something criminal in her past.

P.S. What I find most interesting in this link is that her neice, CT, knew the royal family and as you all probably know, I think the royals are linked to this case in order for the security services to have instantly bombarded PdL and protected the Mcs. I`m obviously not making assumptions, just find it interesting.

Kate McCann in madeleine wrote:Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.

This is starting to resemble one of those old Ealing comedies where an entire village conspires to cover up a crime

Simple question: why would Mrs Fenn lie to the police to protect the son of a fellow ex-pat? If he is innocent, the real evidence should exonerate him but, if he's guilty, why take the risk?

Poe wrote:

Kate McCann in madeleine wrote:Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.

This is starting to resemble one of those old Ealing comedies where an entire village conspires to cover up a crime  

Simple question: why would Mrs Fenn lie to the police to protect the son of a fellow ex-pat? If he is innocent, the real evidence should exonerate him but, if he's guilty, why take the risk?

I agree about the Ealing comedies - TB, over the way, said he does not believe anyone except Martin Grime. Can you imagine ? - everyone in PdL lying

Poe wrote:

Kate McCann in madeleine wrote:Then a lady appeared on a balcony – I’m fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived – and, in a plummy voice, inquired, ‘Can someone tell me what all the noise is about?’ I explained as clearly as I was able, given the state I was in, that my little girl had been stolen from her bed, to which she casually responded, ‘Oh, I see,’ almost as if she’d just been told that a can of beans had fallen off a kitchen shelf. I remember feeling both shocked and angry at this woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned reaction. I recollect that in our outrage, Fiona and I shouted back something rather short and to the point.

This is starting to resemble one of those old Ealing comedies where an entire village conspires to cover up a crime  

Simple question: why would Mrs Fenn lie to the police to protect the son of a fellow ex-pat? If he is innocent, the real evidence should exonerate him but, if he's guilty, why take the risk?

Yep everyone is lying

Yep, that's the question Poe, why? Same question for Martin Smith, why?
We also have to remember that this is about the life and death of an innocent child.
With or without protection, I'm pretty sure Mrs Fenn and Mr Smith would have to know some sort of truth of what did happen to Maddie for them to lie for anyone.
IMO