Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Andrew wrote:

Andrew wrote:... So anyway. Back to the title topic, 'Doubts of Mrs Fenn'.

Snipped from TB referring to it this morn:

I do not accept that there ever was a 'crying incidnet' on 1 May, or indeed any other time.

I find it remarkable that he more than accepted it before he had his little chat with the McCann lawyers. Proof of it all on record of him emphasising and putting great credence on it.

The volte-face after these 'suggestions' to the McCann lawyers is fascinating. I wish he would explain a bit more about that... He appears to cherry-pick stuff from here and post up over there but keeps ignoring my question..... I wonder why that is...

(P.S a tip...Turn spellcheck on Tony. Your posts are always littered with spelling mistakes)

Was just looking for something and accidentally bumped into this post.

And again. I need to look where I'm going.

Presumably a deal has been struck?! Between TB and TM...

The 'crying incident' sounds entirely plausible to me and would be consistent with the TM story that the children were left alone in apartments. Not that I think TM tell the truth...but 'something' bad did happen that week, imo,  which would account for the 'disaster' GM talks about and the c*** u** that Murat talks about. And I think it happened early on, hence the McCann routine deviated from that of their friends. Monday morning - something had happened by Monday morning, imo.....

First sentence.... Of course it has.

Stevie Wonder saw through that one.

But anyway.... These 'suggestions'.... Any chance of an honest answer for once?

I want to return to Mrs Fenn because I think she is a very important eye-witness.

I think is is quite helpful to inspect what Kate wrote about Mrs Fenn.

"Then a lady appeared on a balcony - i'm fairly certain this was about 11pm, before the police arrived - and, in a plumy voice, inquired, 'Can someone tell me what all the noise is about.'

Notice how Kate does not state which balcony Mrs Fenn appeared on. It's not just any old balcony but the balcony right above the McCanns. Which would mean that whoever was in Mrs Fenn's apartment that week, or indeed on the balcony, might well have witnessed something suspicious, as indeed was precisely the case. Both Mrs Fenn and her niece heard and saw things that were important that week. I think Kate is deliberately not wanting to draw attention to the fact that the balcony is directly above their own apartment. And of course it is on police record that it is from this balcony that Mrs Fenn's niece spots the suspicious-looking blond men exiting from a patio gate below on Thursday afternoon.

The timing that Kate gives is interesting and I think indicates deception. There was a commotion about a missing child well before 11pm. Some reports as early as 9.15pm and certainly by 10pm. It seems likely that Mrs Fenn heard the commotion prior to 11pm and I suspect prior to the time the police were called.

It is also odd that Kate claims Mrs Fenn spoke to her, whereas Gerry in at least one account claims that he spoke to Mrs Fenn who offered to call the police on her mobile. Gerry claims they had already been called.

This account is quite different from the one given by Kate who suggests that Mrs Fenn response was casual and 'woefully inadequate'. Offering to call police on her own mobile phone does not strike me as a 'woefully inadequate' response....

I think it is entirely possible that Mrs Fenn leant over the balcony well before 11pm and it may also have been before police had been called. But TM needed more time before police arrived so they had to pretend that police had already been called. I think it is Matt who is sent up to reception to ask staff to call police. Why didn't Gerry take up Mrs Fenn on her offer?

So far from Mrs Fenn's reaction being 'woefully inadequate and apparently unconcerned' as Kate claimed in her book, Mrs Fenn actually offered to help by calling the police.  But Kate, in her usual fashion, has changed the details of the encounter to cast Mrs Fenn in a poor light and to rewrite history. Kate's disparaging use of the word 'plummy' is interesting - inverse snobbery would definitely be part of her modus operandi, imo.

But the point being that Mrs Fenn must be an important eye-witness otherwise Kate would not be so disparaging about her.


.

I think the reaction of most normal parents, under the circumstances, would have been to have asked someone like Mrs Fenn - knowing that they had the apartment right above where their child had been "abducted" from - whether they'd seen anyone or anything earlier in the evening. So desperate would they have been to have news - any kind of news, any clues, anything that might help - they would have moved heaven and earth to ask someone like Mrs Fenn to try and recall what they'd heard...seen.. anything. But no, Kate just wants to dismiss her as being unhelpful.

An insightful perspective poster.  I wish I had your insight.

The phrase "Woefully inadequate" is cringemaking - it sounds like someone trying to be posh or a head teacher telling off a child.  It`s the sort of phrase my teacher S-I-Law uses all the time and it gives the user superiority.

I agree that using the word `plummy` is inverse snobbery - again, it is demeaning, hardly kind or polite and without decorum.   There was no need at all to demean Mrs. Fenn.  It just shows up KM`s own inadequacies.

PS  You can take the girl out of  ****** but you can`t take ****** out of the girl, as they say.

I'm just wondering what your X-rated version of that saying is, Mimi! The only one I know is that you can take the girl out of the gutter etc.

It's just part of Kate's general egotistical character I think to berate Mrs Fenn and everyone else involved for not doing enough in her opinion.

canada12 wrote:I think the reaction of most normal parents, under the circumstances, would have been to have asked someone like Mrs Fenn - knowing that they had the apartment right above where their child had been "abducted" from - whether they'd seen anyone or anything earlier in the evening. So desperate would they have been to have news - any kind of news, any clues, anything that might help - they would have moved heaven and earth to ask someone like Mrs Fenn to try and recall what they'd heard...seen.. anything. But no, Kate just wants to dismiss her as being unhelpful.

Exactly! Mrs Fenn's apartment was occupied all week and her niece and some other guests were sitting on the balcony for quite a few hours on Thursday afternoon - something that I very much suspect was unwelcome to TM and I suspect did not go unnoticed. She was a thorn in their side as she was so close to apartment 5A.

It is noteworthy that TM made much of their visit to the beach on Thursday. It appears that it was important that the group were not at Ocean Club that afternoon, or in and out of each other's apartments, but were somewhere else.

We also cannot know for sure whether Mrs Fenn told anyone else about the crying incident she heard on the Tuesday. I think it is quite possible, given how long it went on for and how it became 'more expressive' that someone or several other people heard this crying. It is not impossible that it was reported to reception, for instance. TM I would imagine worked hard to suppress any negative information about them and independent witnesses to Mrs Finn's account would be most unwelcome, I would imagine, as they allow a picture to be drawn up of how events might have unfolded that week.

I would suggest that the crying incident indicates that by Tuesday evening events had spiralled out of control and there was a serious crisis on the TM hands.

Mimi wrote:An insightful perspective poster.  I wish I had your insight.

The phrase "Woefully inadequate" is cringemaking - it sounds like someone trying to be posh or a head teacher telling off a child.  It`s the sort of phrase my teacher S-I-Law uses all the time and it gives the user superiority.

I agree that using the word `plummy` is inverse snobbery - again, it is demeaning, hardly kind or polite and without decorum.   There was no need at all to demean Mrs. Fenn.  It just shows up KM`s own inadequacies.

PS  You can take the girl out of  ****** but you can`t take ****** out of the girl, as they say.

Agreed - Kate and indeed the whole group are highly duplicitous, imo. Don't forget - Mrs Fenn heard an hour and a quarter of crying coming from apartment 5A on Tuesday evening. Given the group admit to leaving their children alone and checking every half an hour or so does that not signify that the 'checking' story was not true? Otherwise, why would the crying have gone on so long? So who exactly is being 'woefully inadequate' here? Mrs Fenn who offers to call police on her mobile when she is told a little girl has been abducted, or the McCanns and their friends who leave their children alone resulting in one of them crying for an hour and a quarter.

Of course it is possible that the crying was not one of the children but Kate crying out: 'Maddie'. But this would be just as incriminating as it could suggest that Madeleine had come to some serious harm by then which Kate was inconsolable about.

TM always wish to point the finger away from themselves and onto third parties who have done nothing wrong, imo. Mrs Fenn is a classic example.

For Mrs Fenn to be able to speak to anyone down in apartment 5A they must have been in the garden as her balcony is directly over that of 5A.

In itself not important but what would people be doing in the tiny garden of 5A. It wasn't a party with overspill into the outdoor area.

Tangled Web wrote:For Mrs Fenn to be able to speak to anyone down in apartment 5A they must have been in the garden as her balcony is directly over that of 5A.

In itself not important but what would people be doing in the tiny garden of 5A. It wasn't a party with overspill into the outdoor area.

The cadaver dogs did alert to the flower beds a the front of the McCann apartment in the summer. I wonder if someone tried to remove a body - possibly in a bag - but put it down there hurredly when someone else walked by perhaps?

What was the real reason for Jez Wilkins just so happening to bump into Gerry McCann just after Gerry McCann had allegedly checked on Madeleine and allegedly saw her for the lst time at just after 9pm on that fateful evening? Which just so happens to be at almost the same time as Jane Tanner allegedly saw Tanner-man who she claims was in all likelihood Madeleine's abductor?

Too many coincidences, surely? All those people in such close proximity to each other at such a crucial time in such a crucial place? The father of Madeleine just after he allegedly saw her for the last time - before she was abducted - TV drama/documentary maker (whose wife had worked on Crimewatch) Jez Wilkins just happens to be pushing his pram around at the same time and friend of the McCanns Jane Tanner who allegedly (alone of all them apparently) saw Madeleine's abductor spiriting her away at around 9.15pm - just up the road, allegedly.

Agatha Cristie could have written it with a full cast. And where is Inspecter Clousea when you need him?

So Tony Bennet on twitter back to saying everyone is a liar.

here is one tweet he just made. I have to say there is absolutely no proof that Mrs Fenn and Mrs Murat were friends is there? Can anyone show me where I can find it if there is, cos I must have missed it.








Anthony Bennett‏ @zampos · 4m4 minutes ago


Replying to @xxMichelleSxx

REASONS TO LIE 5 Remember that the mother of liar #RobertMurat was friends with Mrs Fenn. Who knows what secrets these 3 shared? A police golden rule is to assess EVERY witness statement to evaluate whether it's reliable or not. There's evidence Mrs Fenn failed that test #McCann

I remember asking Sharon (I think it was) when I was still a member about this and she said that they both belonged to a residents' association.

No proof of course was ever supplied!

Freedom wrote:I remember asking Sharon (I think it was) when I was still a member about this and she said that they both belonged to a residents' association.

No proof of course was ever supplied!

Yes I heard that too, but were they? There is no proof of this, if there is I would like to see it.... Even if they did happen to belong to the RA , who was to say there were friends, they may not even have liked each other - who knows, you can't speculate.

It is quite likely that they knew each other as British ex-pats living near each other but even that is just speculation.

Well yes, you almost always know everyone who lives near to you or would attend the same places as you, you may know them by sight or a hello, but it does not mean at all you are bessie mates with them.... sharing these secrets that TB tells us.

Just seen on twitter, have not read it...…



Bugsy‏ @TheBunnyReturns ·




DefinitelyNotTextusa dissects Kate #McCann's nonsensical account of meeting Pamela Fenn:

http://nottextusa.blogspot.com/2018/06/signs-of-life.html …

candyfloss wrote:Just seen on twitter, have not read it...…



Bugsy‏ @TheBunnyReturns ·
 



DefinitelyNotTextusa dissects Kate #McCann's nonsensical account of meeting Pamela Fenn:

http://nottextusa.blogspot.com/2018/06/signs-of-life.html …

I always thought Nt was a pro,maybe not after all.

IMO not at all. And very intelligent observations.

mccannpjfiles‏ @mccannpjfiles · 58m58 minutes ago




#McCann New updated Translation: Pamela Fenn Statement apologies for not seeing update earlier now edited #mccannpjfiles

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm …

candyfloss wrote:mccannpjfiles‏ @mccannpjfiles · 58m58 minutes ago  



 
#McCann New updated Translation: Pamela Fenn Statement apologies for not seeing update earlier now edited #mccannpjfiles

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm …

I'm dim but does anyone know the update?

Sorry, but I just had to post this, it does make you wonder how some conduct their research.  



Anthony Bennett‏ @zampos · 9m9 minutes ago  



No. #PamelaFenn fixed the 'crying incident' at 10.30pm, Tues 1 May. The first anyone knew of this alleged crying incident was in British newspapers, 18 August. She doesn't mention #RobertMurat at all, yet Murat claims 'some foreign woman' phoned him. He must mean Mrs Fenn #McCann








My mouth is just dropping open further and further …….

Statements like Mrs Fenn 'fixed' the crying incident.  And....

Murat claims some foreign woman phoned him...………

Ah well then of course it must be Mrs Fenn, good deduction Sherlock, except Mrs Fenn wasn't foreign was she - she was English just like Murat, so why on earth would he say 'foreign woman'


I don't think Murat says that at all, wasn't it the PJ that said that.

Here is a post on the first page of this thread...….

chirpyinsect wrote:Thanks to Rufus T over the way for this link to the GNR officer who mentioned Murat 's call re the crying.
What is interesting is that his statement is from 16/5 and he mentions an English speaking woman who has already been interviewed. Mrs Fenn's statement is dated Aug so unless she gave more than 1 statement it can't be assumed it was Mrs Fenn who called Murat.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

Witness Statement


Date: 2007/05/16


Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa


Occupation: GNR Officer


He has been a GNR officer since 1996. He is a soldier and works at the Lagos GNR post.

On 3rd May when he was at home, he was contacted by the GNR post commander who asked him to go to P da L.

He arrived at the OC at 00.05 on 4th May having contacted his colleague Nelson Costa who informed him about the situation.

After having been informed ha began to search the perimeter of the tourist complex. First he revised the perimeter alone and was later accompanied by Officer Pimentel. During his time on the scene he did not talk to anyone.

Neither did he enter the apartment from which Madeleine had disappeared. There many people at the scene but nobody particularly drew his attention.

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

Note the statement above, FOREIGN WOMEN (plural), child crying in apartment near to THEM (plural). Sounds like a couple of women doesn't it. We know there were two who were there together. Plus this could be the couple that comforted Madeleine that night, again see first page of this thread.

We know a crying incident is important that week because:

1. Kate and Fiona are rude and dismissive of Mrs Fenn - this suggests she is privy to information that does not put them in a good light.

2. Kate in an early television interview becomes very agitated around a crying incident involving Madeleine. She repeats herself several times in quite an agitated way and then literally starts fanning herself as if the whole incident is 'too hot to handle'. She laments the fact that she did not sit Madeleine down properly and find out exactly what had upset her to this extent - Kate says this while mimicking shaking Madeleine by the shoulders - was what Madeleine had to say something that Kate did not want to hear? I think it was.  While Kate gets hot and bothered about this incident Gerry looks on with an expression which is a mixture of a smirk and a resigned shrug as if to say: 'what the heck was that all about - I have no idea'.

In later interviews, Kate has learned to control her responses and when asked about the incident she raises her top lip in an expression of contempt as if to say: 'it was nothing - not even worth thinking about'.

The pair are dreadful cod actors but occasionally, especially with Kate, their guard comes down and their body language reveals the truth.

IMO as always.

The Irish interviewer showed great relish when he asked Kate about the row that the pair had that week so I would say that a massive row as also an important feature of that week. Kate replies in her deadpan voice which I think she sometimes uses to cover up any emotional responses which might give the game away. She states: 'We never row'. As you often have to reverse what she says to get the truth then perhaps the Irish interviewer was touching on something very sensitive.

This one  poster?