Re: The Mystery of Ben Needham

seahorse Wed 11 May 2016, 12:22 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
Satsuma wrote:Why is everybody on here so convinced that BN was abducted? There's no proof, or even evidence

I voted for your third option which was something unexplained happened to both children, so not everyone is convinced.

That's the 4th option. Hence the confusion.

This is what Satsuma posted (I've numbered them for clarity):

1. Both abducted
2. MM abducted, something else happened to BN
3. BN abducted, something else happened to MM
4. Something else happened to both of them

I go with option 4 as well.

Satsuma Wed 11 May 2016, 12:29 pm

One of the problems is that we don't know for sure that he was even at the house just before the alarm was raised
Does this ring any bells?

**Freedom** Wed 11 May 2016, 12:37 pm

There was at least one Greek workman there who presumably was able to confirm seeing him.

seahorse Wed 11 May 2016, 12:56 pm

Freedom wrote:There was at least one Greek workman there who presumably was able to confirm seeing him.

The owner of the farmhouse, Michaelis Kypreos, was there as well.

chirpyinsect Wed 11 May 2016, 1:54 pm

seahorse wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:
Satsuma wrote:Why is everybody on here so convinced that BN was abducted? There's no proof, or even evidence

I voted for your third option which was something unexplained happened to both children, so not everyone is convinced.

That's the 4th option. Hence the confusion.

This is what Satsuma posted (I've numbered them for clarity):

1. Both abducted
2. MM abducted, something else happened to BN
3. BN abducted, something else happened to MM
4. Something else happened to both of them

I go with option 4 as well.

Ah my bad.

Popcorn Wed 11 May 2016, 2:41 pm

I've just seen online that police are following up a claim from a 'mystery caller' claiming that Ben Needham's name was changed to Andreas in 1993.
ITV news story

Call me an old cynic, but the UK authorities haven't given a toss about Ben Needham for two decades. Now, suddenly, when the very expensive, very high-profile McCann missing child case looks like a busted flush; the police have spent millions and run out of all (bar one) leads, and the Portuguese cop who has been repeatedly vilified by our national press looks like he's finally going to get his version of what happened published in English, we are suddenly presented with new hope that Ben is alive. And if Ben can be alive, folks, isn't it proof that we must all never, never, never stop believing? It's not quite a Madeleine sighting, but it's the next best thing.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really do hope that Ben is alive, and think it would be wonderful if he could one day be reunited with his poor mother. But this new story also makes me feel so sceptical after so many years of watching the McCann case unfold. What do other people think?

chirpyinsect Wed 11 May 2016, 3:19 pm

Popcorn wrote:I've just seen online that police are following up a claim from a 'mystery caller' claiming that Ben Needham's name was changed to Andreas in 1993.
ITV news story

Call me an old cynic, but the UK authorities haven't given a toss about Ben Needham for two decades. Now, suddenly, when the very expensive, very high-profile McCann missing child case looks like a busted flush; the police have spent millions and run out of all (bar one) leads, and the Portuguese cop who has been repeatedly vilified by our national press looks like he's finally going to get his version of what happened published in English, we are suddenly presented with new hope that Ben is alive. And if Ben can be alive, folks, isn't it proof that we must all never, never, never stop believing? It's not quite a Madeleine sighting, but it's the next best thing.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really do hope that Ben is alive, and think it would be wonderful if he could one day be reunited with his poor mother. But this new story also makes me feel so sceptical after so many years of watching the McCann case unfold. What do other people think?

See my comments on the other thread. Maybe admin could merge.

I don't know to which topic you're referring.

Satsuma Wed 11 May 2016, 4:36 pm

According to this account, they took a long time to establish he was missing and do something about it

At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped

A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back.

About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.

In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine. He wasn't

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham

They seem to have been "assuming" rather a lot. And why were they still "working on the roof" when BN had apparently disappeared?

seahorse Wed 11 May 2016, 4:56 pm

I read that Stephen was told he could go because they ran out of materials so there was no more work for him to do. He left to have a swim, have a beer and then go to Kerry's flat to have a shower. So why did they assume he would have gone to the caravan?

Eddie had a Landrover, so why make Christine walk for half an hour back to the caravan, when they could have gone in the Landrover?

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 4:57 pm

http://benneedham18.blogspot.co.uk/

Just stumbled across this. Worth a read.

Satsuma Wed 11 May 2016, 5:11 pm

Interesting, Andrew - thanks for that link

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 5:14 pm

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/more-grief-for-family-of-boy-who-vanished-1-2409998

Was reading this old article but can't find the documentary mentioned though...

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 5:30 pm

Interestingly you can get every single episode of 'Real Crime' off You Tube apart from the Ben Needham one... scratch

**Freedom** Wed 11 May 2016, 6:53 pm

The story of how Ben came to be missing is certainly strange.

If there really was an abductor, how did he know about this remote site and that there was a child there; how did he get there? Presumably he had some sort of transport so how did nobody hear him arrive and leave?

Bampots Wed 11 May 2016, 8:02 pm

Is this the film? Real crime was an itv production,bit of info here from the BFI......

http://www.bfi.org.uk/films-tv-people/4ce2b867b3c0c

Ben Needham: Somebody Knows (2001)

Film details

Country United Kingdom
Year 2001
Type Television
Synopsis

Revisits the case of Ben Needham, who disappeared ten years ago when he was twenty one months old whilst the family were staying on the Greek island of Kos. No trace of him has ever been found, although there have been several reported sightings and false trails. Ben's uncle Stephen Needham undergoes hypnosis to see if he can revive any memories of the day that may prove useful. He has disquieting images of killing Ben in a motorbike accident and burying him, but since police suggested this to him on several occassions during past interogations this may not signify anything

Bampots Wed 11 May 2016, 8:09 pm

....... And this article the day after the Real Crime episode was broadcast.......

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/more-grief-for-family-of-boy-who-vanished-1-2409998

More grief for family of boy who vanished
23:02Wednesday 20 June 2001
The grandmother of missing boy Ben Needham said yesterday she was “very upset” at reports that her son buried the youngster’s body.<br> Ben, (pictured) who was born in Sheffield, was just 21-months-old when he vanished from the Greek island of Kos on July 24, 1991, while he was with his family.

ADVERTISING

inRead invented by Teads
Theories have included Ben was killed, abducted by gipsies or sold to a family who could not have a child. Police have never closed the file.
......

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/more-grief-for-family-of-boy-who-vanished-1-2409998

Ben has not been seen since, despite many appeals by his family and the British authorities over the years.

The last person to see him before his disappearance was thought to be his uncle Stephen Needham, who has undergone hypnosis to retrieve memories of what may have happened when Ben disappeared near his grandparents’ farmhouse.

It has been reported that Mr Needham, now 27, believes he crashed his motor scooter and how he then has the nightmare of burying Ben with a spade.

But he does not believe it is a true memory and the images must have been planted in his mind by the aggressive questioning of the police at the time of Ben’s disappearance.

An interview with Mr Needham was screened last night in an ITV documentary called: Real Crime: Ben Needham – Somebody Knows.

Ben’s grandmother Christine told GMTV: “Stephen’s last image of Ben was him playing in shorts. But he was not wearing shorts, so I must have been the last to see him.

“Stephen was so brave to have to go through this and to be virtually accused...

“We are very upset about it.

“People have to see this (the documentary) before they jump to conclusions.”

Ben’s mother Kerry, 29, said she still hoped her son would be found.

“One day it will happen - one day,” she said.

“We will not give up until that day comes. There is not one day goes by when we think about what could have happened.

“We just tackle things one day at a time.”

A spokeswoman for Carlton TV, which made last night’s documentary, said: “Our film does not go into what Stephen’s nightmares consist of. There’s no real detail.

“The film follows the family and a number of leads in Greece and Stephen goes through five days of hypnosis.”

The spokeswoman said that during the hypnosis, Stephen conjures a number of images in his mind which are thought to have arisen as a result of police interrogation.

“Stephen does talk about seeing a cement truck at the end of the lane which no-one remembers seeing at the time.

“But the truck company was tracked down and they did have a cement truck in the area on that day.”

Read more: http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/more-grief-for-family-of-boy-who-vanished-1-2409998#ixzz48NLnOX9L

chirpyinsect Wed 11 May 2016, 8:11 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
Popcorn wrote:I've just seen online that police are following up a claim from a 'mystery caller' claiming that Ben Needham's name was changed to Andreas in 1993.
ITV news story

Call me an old cynic, but the UK authorities haven't given a toss about Ben Needham for two decades. Now, suddenly, when the very expensive, very high-profile McCann missing child case looks like a busted flush; the police have spent millions and run out of all (bar one) leads, and the Portuguese cop who has been repeatedly vilified by our national press looks like he's finally going to get his version of what happened published in English, we are suddenly presented with new hope that Ben is alive. And if Ben can be alive, folks, isn't it proof that we must all never, never, never stop believing? It's not quite a Madeleine sighting, but it's the next best thing.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really do hope that Ben is alive, and think it would be wonderful if he could one day be reunited with his poor mother. But this new story also makes me feel so sceptical after so many years of watching the McCann case unfold. What do other people think?

See my comments on the other thread. Maybe admin could merge.

I don't know to which topic you're referring.

I could have sworn there were 2 Ben Needham threads. I had made a comment yesterday that I thought it could be a cynical ploy by OG to fudge the closing of the case, to which you replied Candy.

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 8:21 pm

Yes, that's the one @ Bampots. But it appears to have been whooshed from You Tube for whatever reason. (although you can get it if you have Amazon Prime - which I don't)

That Y.E.P link was the same as posted earlier hence why I was intrigued to watch the doc as it mentions the Uncle's interview.

**candyfloss** Wed 11 May 2016, 8:25 pm

chirpyinsect wrote:
chirpyinsect wrote:
Popcorn wrote:I've just seen online that police are following up a claim from a 'mystery caller' claiming that Ben Needham's name was changed to Andreas in 1993.
ITV news story

Call me an old cynic, but the UK authorities haven't given a toss about Ben Needham for two decades. Now, suddenly, when the very expensive, very high-profile McCann missing child case looks like a busted flush; the police have spent millions and run out of all (bar one) leads, and the Portuguese cop who has been repeatedly vilified by our national press looks like he's finally going to get his version of what happened published in English, we are suddenly presented with new hope that Ben is alive. And if Ben can be alive, folks, isn't it proof that we must all never, never, never stop believing? It's not quite a Madeleine sighting, but it's the next best thing.

Don't get me wrong, I really, really do hope that Ben is alive, and think it would be wonderful if he could one day be reunited with his poor mother. But this new story also makes me feel so sceptical after so many years of watching the McCann case unfold. What do other people think?

See my comments on the other thread. Maybe admin could merge.

I don't know to which topic you're referring.

I could have sworn there were 2 Ben Needham threads. I had made a comment yesterday that I thought it could be a cynical ploy by OG to fudge the closing of the case, to which you replied Candy.

It's this thread chirpy previous page.

All I have done is merge the new thread Poe started with the one post to this thread and your answer about merging, which I have done

Bampots Wed 11 May 2016, 8:37 pm

I've got amazon prime Andrew.....what is it I'm looking for as I don't know much about Ben Needhams.....I mean any pointers!?

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 8:42 pm

Bampots wrote:I've got amazon prime Andrew.....what is it I'm looking for as I don't know much about Ben Needhams.....I mean any pointers!?

Errrr..... Not too sure myself to be fair. Just trying to clue myself up a bit more about it all.

Was just interested in seeing the Uncles interview. And whether there was footage of him under hypnosis....

Here's a link anyway.

https://www.ovguide.com/tv_episode/real-crime-season-1-episode-3-ben-needham-somebody-knows-778051

Bampots Wed 11 May 2016, 8:45 pm

Struggling to find it on amazon prime do you have any more info or link?

Andrew Wed 11 May 2016, 8:49 pm

Bampots wrote:Struggling to find it on amazon prime do you have any more info or link?

Does that link not work.....

poster Wed 11 May 2016, 10:15 pm

Freedom wrote:I wonder if there was an accident involving Ben's uncle - not the 17-year-old and his motorbike as have been frequently mentioned, but the 11-year-old.

How, if this is the case, the family can have hidden the truth all these years I don't know.

Yes. Almost definitely the case, imo. The male members of the family know what happened I think. The account of the afternoon is very odd and I find there are parts of Kerry's book - particularly the day of the disappearance - that do not really ring true. Not saying she knows exactly what happened but I think the men do.

What is interesting is that the owner of the villa where they were doing building work upped sticks very shortly after 'the disappearance' and got the hell out of there. I wonder if he knew what happened?

ETA: It may be that the male members of the family or possibly the villa owner had contacts with the police in the UK. I am sure the UK police know that Ben cannot and will not be found.

I think the Greek police were suspicious about what really happened.

poster Wed 11 May 2016, 10:44 pm

Satsuma wrote:According to this account, they took a long time to establish he was missing and do something about it

At about two-thirty, Stephen left on his moped

A few minutes after Stephen left, Christine registered that Ben had gone quiet and went outside. He was nowhere to be seen. She, Eddie, Danny and Michaelis Kypreos searched up and down the lane, in the field by the house, in a nearby orange grove, calling for him, looking anywhere he could conceivably be. When they couldn't find him, they assumed he must have gone with Stephen. They thought Stephen had taken Ben for a ride and would bring him back.

This account does not ring true. You would not do all that searching and then just make an assumption. Why would they search everywhere and then just give up? I suspect that Stephen took Ben on his moped. And said he would be back at a certain time. Or maybe was just taking Ben for a short spin on the moped. Stephen either didn't come back within the expected time or came back but with bad news, imo. In the first case scenario, the men would have become worried about the possibility of an accident and gone out looking. In the second case they would have rushed back with Stephen to where Ben was.

About an hour later, thinking Stephen had gone to the caravan instead of coming back to the farmhouse, or had gone to Kerry's flat, Christine walked back to Paradisi, while Eddie, Danny and Kypreos stayed working on the roof.

Again, this does not ring true. You don't allow a three year old to go off on the back of a teenager's moped and then just forget about it. There is quite a high possibility that an accident might happen when you combine mopeds and teenagers. I suspect then men were doing anything but working on the roof.

In the early evening Eddie went to the caravan expecting to find Ben with Christine. He wasn't

Again, this is simply not believable, imo. All that time with Ben's whereabouts unaccounted for? I presume there was an accident and the men hid this from Christine and pretended that Ben had been abducted. This gave them all afternoon to plan what to do. It could be that Christine had suspicions but would rather cling to the idea that Ben could still be alive as it least this gives hope.

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/mar/29/missing-child-ben-needham

They seem to have been "assuming" rather a lot. And why were they still "working on the roof" when BN had apparently disappeared?

I agree. I think the men would have rushed off, worried about the possibility of an accident.

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