The Mystery of Ben Needham

chirpyinsect wrote:Not sure you can conclude guilt from that Poster. If Ben was given a ride on the moped Stephen probably just pushed it round with his feet. Ben would think it great. Even if the engine was on, it is perfectly possible he would go very slowly ( 2  mph is just a figure of speech)

17-year-old boys don't drive slowly on mopeds. They just don't. It's all about speed.

He has admitted that he did put Ben on the moped.

He could have outright denied that Ben was ever on the moped, for instance, whether or not true.

It is possible he admitted that Ben had been on the moped for several reasons:

1. Ben really had been on the moped and to deny he had ever been on it would be an outright lie. It is stressful to lie. Therefore easier to tell a semblance of the truth but sanitize the incident. KM does this the whole time in her book, imo.

2. People outside the family had seen Ben on the moped with his young Uncle. Therefore if he had denied that Ben had ever been on the moped it would be clear to others outside the family that if he was prepared to lie about that, his account of the events of the afternoon Ben disappeared might be deceptive too.

I think the fact that he mentions speed is relevant. He didn't have to.

chirpyinsect wrote:Not sure you can conclude guilt from that Poster. If Ben was given a ride on the moped Stephen probably just pushed it round with his feet. Ben would think it great. Even if the engine was on, it is perfectly possible he would go very slowly ( 2  mph is just a figure of speech)

Obviously I am only presenting a scenario. I just think it is the most likely.

Ben disappears. The family are worried and search for him. When they don't find him they stop looking. Why would you stop looking until you have found him? Apparently because, after the period of searching they then form a conclusion that he must have gone off with his Uncle on his moped. This is illogical. You search until you find Ben and know where he is.

They would have gone off in search of Ben and his Uncle and found them. I'm sorry but I really think it is self-evident what happened.

A theory as always.

I actually happen to agree that there is a case for there having been an accident with Ben on the scooter. To me it is certainly a possibility. But I don't think we can conclude that Stephen is guilty just because you think he wouldn't have ridden the moped slowly around the caravan with Ben on board. Kerry said he did in her book. And we are talking about in a field not on the road here. By all accounts Stephen was very close to Ben and I can see a young uncle giving his little nephew shots on the scooter. I doubt any of the adults in the family would let it happen if he rode too fast.
When Stephen denies having Ben on the scooter he was probably meaning on the road. Didn't he say to Kerry that he wouldn't have done so as he didn't have a helmet?
The fact that Kerry mentions in her book that Ben was on the scooter going slowly round the caravan means Stephen would hardly be able to deny it.
I think that his vision of having had an accident then burying Ben is a bigger suggestion of what may have happened but still not conclusive.
I wonder if the witnesses to Stephens altercation ever confirmed if there was an accident or not. Didn't he say there was a car involved?

A comment from textusa site about todays news article...thought myself the slant had gently moved?

Textusa20 Nov 2016, 15:24:00
Very interesting paragraph: "Last month detectives announced that Ben “most likely” died as a result of a building site accident at a farmhouse close to the village of Iraklis where his family had been staying."

We don't remember SYP having announced "most likely" (what was indeed said is quoted in article) when referring to Ben's death last month, so as it's not a quote one can only deduce that quotation marks are used for emphasis.

So, apparently, the certainty it was digger is no longer a certainty.

That, appears to be one of 2 things:

One, SYP are backtracking and things will return to how they were before they made the statement in which was said in very clear terms there was a "professional belief that Ben Needham died as a result of an accident near to the farmhouse in Iraklis where he was last seen playing".

Two, the blame will shift from digger driver to someone else who happened to be nearby at the time. Who it will be will be anybody's guess. Maybe some sunglass stand just outside the farmhouse, similar to the one Gerry McCann bought his sunglasses from in Luz, that may have fallen on the poor boy, and which now some witness will say after all these years that it was there although no one else noticed it.

In this possibility, as we said, we don't know who will be blamed, only know it has to be someone who was very near to the events in question.

In case of the other possibility, the backtracking, all SYP has to do is to give a reasonable explanation as to why toy car travelled on its own that distance and dug itself up.

Anonymous20 Nov 2016, 17:45:00
Note how the para about the big digger - true, but not at farmhouse site - and para about an accident are not directly linked.
Both statements can be true, but SYP have carefully avoided directly claiming it was an accident with the digger.

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/blogeditorial-decision.html?m=1#comment-form

Thanks for posting that up. I was going to highlight the 'most likely' bit as well after I posted the article. But I forgot.

Anyway, Textusa has said it a lot better than I would've done.

Be interesting to see what the next move is in all this.

A confession?

Dont know if this info is already on here .....so if this post not relevant wipe it girls!......

Also it is the texusa blog comments again as above ......

Anonymous20 Nov 2016, 18:40:00
http://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2016-09-18/grandfather-of-ben-needham-hard-to-believe-missing-toddler-died-in-accident/

Eddie Needham checked digger on the day.
No signs of an accident, blood.
Impossible he was hit.

Textusa20 Nov 2016, 18:44:00
Anonymous 20 Nov 2016, 18:40:00,

Thank you for your comment. We have already listed this as #10 on our list. We picked it up from a Mirror article and it seems ITV echoed it. Will bring it over to the blog:

"ITV Report 18 September 2016 at 11:54am

Grandfather of Ben Needham: hard to believe missing toddler died in accident

The grandfather of Ben Needham has told ITV Calendar that he finds it hard to believe Konstantinos Barkas could have killed Ben in an accident with his digger, and not said anything at the time to the family.

Eddie Needham spoke with Calendar Producer Mark Witty, after revelations about Ben's possible fate were revealed in the press, and in an exclusive ITV television interview with Ben's mother Kerry.

Eddie described Barkas as a "gentle giant" and was struggling with the premise that he did not reveal any connection to Ben's death when Barkas himself knew he had terminal cancer. He died 18 months ago without, it's reported, any "deathbed" revelation.

Eddie also checked Barkas's vehicle on the day of Ben's disappearance - it was a tractor with a bucket-style digger on the front and the driver position was high up - giving a clear view ahead while driving.

Eddie said the family was trying to remain strong and face the future as best as they can in the circumstances.
Last updated Mon 17 Oct 2016"

Interesting to see how the Mirror and ITV are working hand in hand when it comes to Ben

Andrew wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2223072/police-spent-21141-62-flying-to-and-from-greece-in-search-for-missing-ben-needham/

I think it would be very interesting to know who the villa owner was the the Needham family were working for? He scarpered pretty quickly after Ben disappeared I seem to remember....

I wonder if he had contacts with Yorks police?

Michaelis did indeed leave the Island quite quickly afterwards. Not sure exactly when off the top of my head though. He lived in Australia (I think it was) until he died back end of 2012. Just before the Police went over for their first round of searches, if I recall correctly.

They (SYP) have certainly not done themselves any favours in the past, that's for sure.

I remember saying on here ages ago, that I couldn't work out whether DI Cousins was playing an absolute blinder in establishing the exact truth of what happened to Ben Needham or he didn't have a clue, was making things up as he went along and was incompetently out of his depth.

And to be fair, I still don't know what to think.

poster wrote:

Andrew wrote:https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2223072/police-spent-21141-62-flying-to-and-from-greece-in-search-for-missing-ben-needham/

I think it would be very interesting to know who the villa owner was the the Needham family were working for? He scarpered pretty quickly after Ben disappeared I seem  to remember....

I wonder if he had contacts with Yorks police?

S. Yorks police is notorious.

Are all these dodgy missing cases just an excuse for an all-expenses-paid jolly in the sunshine?

I refuse to believe that the police don't have a pretty good idea what happened to Ben and know he cannot and will not be found.

Ditto the Met police with regard to Madeleine.

What a scam...

IMO only of course

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/30/south-yorkshire-police-scrap-it-and-start-over-hillsborough-miners-strike-rotherham

From de text blog comments......delete if already posted....


Saturday, October 20, 2012
By Tom Parry, Lucy Thornton Comments 'I'd hear his voice in my head': Ben Needham's grandad talks of his two decades of pain
Speaking exclusively to the Daily Mirror, he recalled how he spent endless hours searching land around the remote rundown farmhouse

Nervous: Ben's mum Kerry and her dad Eddie

They were words which shook Eddie Needham awake in the middle of the night 21 years ago.
He and his family had spent days and nights searching for his grandson Ben on Kos when he heard the toddler speak to him in his sleep, pleading: “Please come and find me, Grandad, I’m here.”
Back on the Greek island, Eddie, now 63, says those words still haunt him today.
So too does the guilt he feels that Ben ever disappeared at all – he had persuaded daughter Kerry to up sticks and join the rest of the family in Greece in the first place.
Now the retired builder hopes the search led by UK police will finally end their nightmare.
Yesterday he returned to the spot where he last saw his fun-loving 21-month-old grandson playing.
Speaking exclusively to the Daily Mirror, he recalled how he spent endless hours searching land around the remote rundown farmhouse where Ben disappeared in 1991.
He said: “The biggest thing that’s haunted me is I used to hear him in my head, ‘I’m here, Grandad. Come and find me, I’m here’.
"I searched everywhere; the ravine, the brambles, the outbuildings, the well.
“I had to give up searching for Ben for my own sanity. It was sending me mad. I couldn’t think or operate properly.”
Eddie and his wife Christine, now 60, fell in love with Kos during their first holiday abroad together in September 1990 and quickly made the decision to sell up in Sheffield and move to their island idyll.
They bought a second-hand caravan, a battered old Land Rover and headed off with their sons Stephen, then 16, Danny, 10, and their pet dog.
Eddie said: “We drove there and for two days in France we went in the wrong direction.
"We spent Christmas Day in a motorway service station and had turkey Chris had cooked but that was it because the gas ran out.
“When we got to Kos we had a great life at first, fishing all the time catching octopus and eels and cooking them. We thought, ‘What a life!’”
Son Danny, now 33 and a singer, chipped in: “I loved it too. It was brilliant, I got to swim and play on the beach.”
But the family, who are incredibly close, desperately missed their first grandchild and Kerry.
They constantly wrote letters home to 19-year-old Kerry telling her about their new wonderful life.
Danny explained: “We told her Ben would have a fabulous life over there. It was so free and not at all like England with all the crime.
“Kerry’s heart had been broken by Ben’s dad and we told her to come out. She agreed and we picked her up from the airport.”
The family rented a small olive grove and set about starting the renovations.
Eventually Stephen and Kerry decided they wanted some independence and moved into an apartment together with Ben.
Kerry got a job as a waitress and Christine looked after Ben when she was working.
On the morning of July 24, 1991, Kerry went to work and Christine and Danny pushed Ben in a pushchair on the half-an-hour trip to visit the building site.
It was the tot’s first trip there to see his grandad Eddie and uncle Stephen working, while a digger driver moved rubble.
It was only after work had finished for the day that it became apparent Ben was missing.
Eddie said: “The last time I saw Ben he was playing just outside.
"He had a stick and was poking the mud and throwing water over himself.
“For some reason I thought Danny was outside with him but Danny said he was inside eating.”
A South Yorkshire police dog searches the area

It was Christine who eventually raised the alarm.
But in a devastating misunderstanding Eddie’s Greek boss said Stephen must have taken him when he’d left earlier on his motorbike.
Back then there were no mobile phones allowing the family to quickly check.
In the days that followed local police led the hunt for Ben, feared accidentally buried under the mountain of rubble when the digger was clearing the site.
Eddie recalled: “I had to stand and watch as police got a JCB and tipped the pile of building dirt from the site next door very slowly.
"Every bucketful felt as if my guts were falling out.
“They moved the dirt from A to B, and the police expected Ben’s body to roll out. Then they moved it back again.
"There was never a proper investigation or a proper search. It was never treated as a crime scene.
“There was a man from the BBC based in Athens at the time and he said he could try and get heat-seeking equipment from the UK to search but the police officer in charge said ‘no’ because he didn’t think Ben was on the island.
“He said if he was the birds would have alerted them as they come in huge numbers even if a small animal is dead.
"He said the ground was too hard for someone to have buried him.”
Referring to the fresh search, Eddie went on: “If they find anything I will be angry because they could have stopped two decades of pain and suffering of not knowing.
“Every time we left Kos I felt as if we were leaving him behind all over again.”
The guilt they still carry remains the most crippling aspect their ordeal.
“I feel so much guilt because I wish I had been strong enough to say ‘no’ we are not moving abroad, I still blame myself,” Eddie said.
“If we hadn’t persuaded Kerry to join us with Ben this would never have happened and he would still be with us.
"It was us who wanted Kerry to come live with us.”
Fighting back tears Christine added: “We told her to come out as it would be a wonderful life for her and Ben.

http://numberonefornews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/by-tom-parry-lucy-thornton-comments-id.html?m=1It%27s

Will put the Textusa latest which H posted on the other thread here as well:

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/found-lost-likely-and-confession.html#more

Andrew wrote:Will put the Textusa latest which H posted on the other thread here as well:

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/found-lost-likely-and-confession.html#more

Good idea fella.

If you apply some of the witness analysis statement techniques as used ih the Kate and Gerryinterviews  to the Ben Needham case, I think it is quite interesting.

Read Kerry's account of the day that Ben went missing in her book. Some things just jump out at me. I will try to find the excerpts from the book but I think they are quite revealing.

http://statement-analysis.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/statement-analysis-mccann-interview-2011.html

Andrew wrote:Will put the Textusa latest which H posted on the other thread here as well:

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/found-lost-likely-and-confession.html#more

:

Snipped from link above:

“An English speaking officer told us Barkas had reported seeing a white car parked along the lane on the day Ben had disappeared. He couldn't identify the passengers, but could tell there were two men in the front and a woman in the back.

I wonder who these people were? Perhaps people he might have recognised but couldn't see properly or chose not too?

It was a very hot day - people tend not to hang around in cars in hot countries once they are parked so could these people possibly have been waiting to make sure there were no eye-witnesses?

I wonder if he took note of the number-plates?

I wonder what sort of car/s Ben's family had while out there? I presume they did have a car or several cars as the farmhouse looks quite remote. Kerry worked some distance away and I presume the Ben's grandparents would have needed a car?

In any even, if poor little Ben came to some kind of terrible harm that day (as I do believe) I presume his body would have been removed by vehicle? It is, IMHO, possible that the digger driver perhaps, in the account above, saw who might have been responsible.....

Which might possibly account for the fact that he is now being blamed as the most likely perpetrator of the crime...and because he is dead he cannot protest his innocent or indeed give his version of events which he might have withheld for all sorts of reasons.

ETA: Barkas is obviously a crucial eye-witness....

From an article in the Record(courtesy of the Textusa blog!)at the beginning  of this month.....delete if we have this article or indeed if someone has pointed this out befo before please?
In the spirit of speech analysis the last sentences spoken by Eddie are the relevant ones..........

“They have told us to prepare for the worst, they have told us gruesomely how he could have been crushed by a digger.

“But if they do find Ben, it is the end of one nightmare and the beginning of another. It’s a horrible feeling living with this never-ending pain of guilt......

There you have it?



http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/ben-needhams-grandad-did-work-8980373

NEWS
Agony of Ben Needham's grandad as he returns to Kos: 'Did I work on farmhouse foundations at centre of search?'

Eddie Needham is travelling to Kos to look at the concrete foundations under a torn-down building to see if they’re the same ones he worked on a few weeks after Ben went missing


BYLUCY THORNTON
22:11, 4 OCT 2016UPDATED10:17, 5 OCT 2016
Grandad of missing Ben Needham, Eddie Needham is to visit Kos......

Ben Needham ’s grandad says he is returning to Kos because he has to find out what happened to the toddler before he dies.

Eddie Needham, 68, is travelling to the Greek island to speak to British police who have demolished an extension to a farmhouse in their search for the little boy.

ADVERTISING

inRead invented by Teads

The grandad says: “I want answers before I go to my grave”.

The former builder wants to look at the concrete foundations under the torn-down building to see if they’re the same ones he worked on a few weeks after Ben went missing.

The extension, ripped down in 25 minutes by a JCB today, is attached to a farmhouse that Eddie was renovating on the day Ben vanished, July 24, 1991.

He said while he is “nervous” about returning, he is desperate to help solve the 25-year mystery that has plagued his family.

Eddie, from Lincolnshire, told the Daily Mirror: “I feel apprehensive because this feels different from the search in 2012.


Kerry Needham at the farmhouse on Kos where the latest search is concentrated on
Kerry Needham at the farmhouse on Kos where the latest search is focused (Photo: Daily Mirror)
“The police definitely think that Ben is no longer alive. I just think there are things we don’t know.

"I want to look them in the eyes. I believe they have a strong indication that something is amiss.

“They have told us to prepare for the worst, they have told us gruesomely how he could have been crushed by a digger.

“But if they do find Ben, it is the end of one nightmare and the beginning of another. It’s a horrible feeling living with this never-ending pain of guilt.

"This police theory of an accident makes that even worse.”

I reckon SYP have a pretty good idea of what happened.

Why all this pussy-footing about like elsewhere is beyond me.

Andrew wrote:

Hope wrote:Sorry have to step in here. I was following the case when this website, new facebook page etc was set up. A few people outraged like thousands of others at the way the McCann's were having millions thrown at OG when SYP had no extra resources re Ben case. Kerry had finally agreed to write a book, or rather ghostwritten as all these types of books are inc the bewk. It all started out small, the family had paid for their own searches as much as they could over the yrs, but now they had a lot of people offering help on the Ben page. I remember an auction for small prizes, it def was v basic, people were asking for wristbands, presuming they had them on sale.
The 3 ladies who runs the page for them had it made up and people sugg selling more items. IIRC a business offered to have items made up for free, pens I think not sure.  If you look at the site you can see there were only a few events before SYP grant came through. There were calendars, one page, to print off fo free.
The Fb page is run mainly by a young man, can't remember the name.

There are discrepancies, I believe I pointed some out first, but I am uncomfortable at some of this like saying they love the lime light, I'd say the opposite.

No need to apologise at all, Hope. To be fair it was just me that said they seemed to 'enjoy' the limelight and that was really just going off those recent videos where they appeared to be having fun being the centre of attention whilst at the same time opening up the coffers.

But my honest opinion is that some in that family are in the 'know'. Maybe just one. Maybe all. But as the title of their second documentary - Somebody Knows.

I personally feel that all of them have probably had a better standard of life since Ben vanished than they would've of done if Ben didn't. Just an honest observation and by no means a personal attack but apologies if it comes across that way...

--------

I think there are parallels with the McCann case in terms of the fund-raising and events because I suspect in both cases the families or at least some of the family knew that the children could not be found - so there was a need to prevent the truth from coming out and a need to continue with a lie.

I think the difference is that in the Needham case what happened was a tragic accident. Whereas I think that in the McCann case it was more complicated.

IMO, in both cases, the child died - in the Needham case on the day of the disappearance, in the McCann case, a day or several days prior to the alarm being raised about her disappearance.

Post  these tp keep Ben thread up to date.....

Textusa4 Dec 2016, 16:18:00
Latest news from the FindBenNeedham page:

https://www.facebook.com/helpfindben/posts/1440832012611869

Help Find Ben Needham added 2 new photos.
2 hrs ·

All it takes is ONE person, ONE phone call , ONE anonymous tip sent to South Yorkshire Police. PLEASE help us find Ben and end this horrific torment now. 25 years is too long to hold this secret. WE WONT GIVE UP OR GO AWAY.
#Helpfindben


We would like to highlight the following comments and replies:

Janine Humphries How come there's been no official statement from the police since they came back from Kos
Like · Reply · 2 · 1 hr
Help Find Ben Needham
Help Find Ben Needham They are still getting everything together , shouldn't be long now. There's still plans behind the scenes , don't worry. We aren't going anywhere til Ben is found xx
Like · Reply · 27 · 1 hr · Edited


Louise Chickadee I thought they had given a final answer as to what happens to Ben? Although I never thought it was acceptable or enough for his family.... I thought that they had come the the conclusion he had been accidently killed by that farmer??
Like · Reply · 1 hr
Help Find Ben Needham
Help Find Ben Needham That is the conclusion and we won't give up til Ben is found xx
Like · Reply · 3 · 1 hr
Reply

I think what's more likely is that Ben died in an accident - most likely involving the moped.

It is possible than in their panic, the members of the family in the know thought that the digger might assist in some kind of concealment. The digger driver could have been roped in in blissful ignorance and, imo, probably was.

But now he is dead he is a convenient patsy. The digger had some involvement in the aftermath perhaps - even if entirely innocent - so it is convenient to shift the blame onto the digger and makes it slightly less of a lie.

All IMO only of course.

But I think this is how people tend to lie. They find someone or some thing connected in some way and then shift the blame to them.

A bit more of Kerry and daughter speaking on the video in this link:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/video-news/video-ben-needhams-family-people-know-what-happened-to-him-35286881.html