Re: Sonia Poulton's documentary

**candyfloss** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:26 am

Neveronasunday wrote:The law places restrictions on what unproven accusations can be made regarding unsolved crimes so it isn't necessary to have seen a preview of the programme

In any case, it isn't the media's job to solve things like this; it's the job of the police and they are already investigating in two different countries. 18 detectives are still on the case in London, and there have been at least that number for the last four years

Moreover, I wonder how one person with a few internet titbits, some contacts and a bit of gossip, can possibly reach a watertight conclusion before the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the PJ, to the extent that any media outlet would be confident enough to broadcast it?

I didn't realise she had reached a watertight conlusion? Wow. A must watch then....

What do those who are so against this documentary make of Richard D Hall's video then? Conclusions/opinions put forward in that as to what may have happened and Smithman etc., weren't they? Should that have not been put out?

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:27 am

Neveronasunday wrote:The law places restrictions on what unproven accusations can be made regarding unsolved crimes so it isn't necessary to have seen a preview of the programme

In any case, it isn't the media's job to solve things like this; it's the job of the police and they are already investigating in two different countries. 18 detectives are still on the case in London, and there have been at least that number for the last four years

Moreover, I wonder how one person with a few internet titbits, some contacts and a bit of gossip, can possibly reach a watertight conclusion before the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the PJ, to the extent that any media outlet would be confident enough to broadcast it?

Don't think Sonia claims to have reached a conclusion, more pointing out the discrepancies.

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:30 am

candyfloss wrote:
Neveronasunday wrote:The law places restrictions on what unproven accusations can be made regarding unsolved crimes so it isn't necessary to have seen a preview of the programme

In any case, it isn't the media's job to solve things like this; it's the job of the police and they are already investigating in two different countries. 18 detectives are still on the case in London, and there have been at least that number for the last four years

Moreover, I wonder how one person with a few internet titbits, some contacts and a bit of gossip, can possibly reach a watertight conclusion before the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the PJ, to the extent that any media outlet would be confident enough to broadcast it?
I didn't realise she had reached a watertight conlusion? Wow. A must watch then....

What do those who are so against this documentary make of Richard D Hall's video then? Conclusions/opinions put forward in that as to what may have happened and Smithman etc., weren't they? Should that have not been put out?

As you pointed out last night this thread is about Sonia not other commentators.

Mimi Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:32 am

Neveronasunday wrote:I admire the optimism of some of you but what you are hoping for is impossible. If this programme ever goes out on mainstream TV (and that itself is questionable), this forum will be full of disappointed contributors the following day

Do you actually know what people are hoping for then ?

**candyfloss** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:33 am

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Neveronasunday wrote:The law places restrictions on what unproven accusations can be made regarding unsolved crimes so it isn't necessary to have seen a preview of the programme

In any case, it isn't the media's job to solve things like this; it's the job of the police and they are already investigating in two different countries. 18 detectives are still on the case in London, and there have been at least that number for the last four years

Moreover, I wonder how one person with a few internet titbits, some contacts and a bit of gossip, can possibly reach a watertight conclusion before the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the PJ, to the extent that any media outlet would be confident enough to broadcast it?
I didn't realise she had reached a watertight conlusion? Wow. A must watch then....

What do those who are so against this documentary make of Richard D Hall's video then? Conclusions/opinions put forward in that as to what may have happened and Smithman etc., weren't they? Should that have not been put out?
As you pointed out last night this thread is about Sonia not other commentators.

Haha just answer please Richard D Hall's videos ok out there then? A simple yes or no will do, not disrupting this topic just a comparison yes or no.

Oh and I pointed out that Tv2 or whatever were not known by anyone, Sonia was known by millions....

Neveronasunday Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:38 am

How is she supposed to point out "discrepancies" without indirectly pointing the finger at two people in particular and therefore getting into trouble with Carter Ruck? The media did all this anyway back in August 2007 - dogs, lack of forensics in 5A, issues with the Tapas 9 timeline. Now they all toe the line, surprise surprise

Ok, I will wait until the programme has been aired on Internet Channel Zog Digital, and we will meet here the following day. But I predict there will be plenty of long faces and many recriminations

If mainstream TV thought they could contribute anything useful, the whole Panorama/World in Action/Sky News teams would be all over it rather than leaving it to someone who occasionally sits on a sofa winding people up

Mimi Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:43 am

Neveronasunday wrote:How is she supposed to point out "discrepancies" without indirectly pointing the finger at two people in particular and therefore getting into trouble with Carter Ruck? The media did all this anyway back in August 2007 - dogs, lack of forensics in 5A, issues with the Tapas 9 timeline. Now they all toe the line, surprise surprise

Ok, I will wait until the programme has been aired on Internet Channel Zog Digital, and we will meet here the following day. But I predict there will be plenty of long faces and many recriminations

If mainstream TV thought they could contribute anything useful, the whole Panorama/World in Action/Sky News teams would be all over it rather than leaving it to someone who occasionally sits on a sofa winding people up

That is just your opinion surely. Personally I usually agree with what she has to say. IMO the likes of Katie Hopkins are the real wind-up merchants. But we get it Neveronasunday - you`re not keen on SP.

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:48 am

candyfloss wrote:
Hongkong Phooey wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
Neveronasunday wrote:The law places restrictions on what unproven accusations can be made regarding unsolved crimes so it isn't necessary to have seen a preview of the programme

In any case, it isn't the media's job to solve things like this; it's the job of the police and they are already investigating in two different countries. 18 detectives are still on the case in London, and there have been at least that number for the last four years

Moreover, I wonder how one person with a few internet titbits, some contacts and a bit of gossip, can possibly reach a watertight conclusion before the combined efforts of Scotland Yard and the PJ, to the extent that any media outlet would be confident enough to broadcast it?
I didn't realise she had reached a watertight conlusion? Wow. A must watch then....

What do those who are so against this documentary make of Richard D Hall's video then? Conclusions/opinions put forward in that as to what may have happened and Smithman etc., weren't they? Should that have not been put out?
As you pointed out last night this thread is about Sonia not other commentators.
Haha just answer please Richard D Hall's videos ok out there then? A simple yes or no will do, not disrupting this topic just a comparison yes or no.

Oh and I pointed out that Tv2 or whatever were not known by anyone, Sonia was known by millions....

You're going off topic (hope you're not trying to derail this one Very Happy

) is there not a RDH thread you can ask the question there?

Neveronasunday Sat 17 Oct 2015, 10:51 am

No Mimi, it's not that I'm not keen on SP (though her last Maddie venture into the national press was a fiasco) - I just know what the mainstream media is and isn't allowed to broadcast. If she manages to knock Bundleman on the head (not difficult) I suppose that's something, and there may be a few other things, but don't expect a Kikoratton-style analysis of the creche records or pixel-by-pixel dissection of the Last Photo

But out of respect to the opinions of other members, I'll leave it at that for now, and wait to see what I think of its content when it is broadcast

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 11:17 am

This is the thing I don't really understand, that if posters like myself, HKP, Resistor etc ask any questions at all..usually in response to something that Sonia or Cristobell have tweeted/posted, then other posters automatically seem to assume that we are either against Cristobell and Sonia or are frightened/don't want the documentary to be aired, when that is not the case at all, certainly from my point of view. To be honest, I had never heard of Sonia until her short lived venture into The People's Voice tv thing and to be honest, she was just another dissenting voice, like the rest of us here, questioning the official McCann abduction story, so nothing special or different imo

As far as I am concerned, the only way we will get proper resolution to this case is through the two active police investigations and as such any documentaries be they by R D Hall or Sonia Poulton, won't make a sod of a difference in the greater scheme of things and my main concern was any possible interference in those ongoing investigations, in terms of scuppering a fair trial due to a media expose, that would work in the McCanns favour and as a result, mean that we would never get a proper resolution, arrests, charges and convictions. Cristobell's post the other day seemed to alleviate that possibility by saying that timing would be everything and there would be nothing that would compromise the current investigations..so as far as I'm concerned that's fair enough. However, I don't think that there should be problem with the likes of HKP asking questions about who the experts are, that seems to be a fairly innocuous question as far as I can see and I totally agree that HKP has the right to ask it. Fair enough if the answer is "sorry can't tell you for xyz reason" but in my opinion Sonia is trying to sell a product and as such I think it only fair that potential consumers have the right to ask certain questions prior to obtaining said product. Whilst I can understand that to divulge the entire plot and cast of characters would probably not be in Sonia's best interests, surely answering a couple of basic questions shouldn't be a problem?

As I have repeatedly said, I am quite happy to wait to see the finished article, although I fully understand the frustration when a "Teaser" tweet is posted, which obviously encourages people to ask questions, Sonia is posting tweets to maintain interest in her product, so she cannot be unduly upset if people then do want further information. Ultimately though, and I am prepared to be wrong and will happily admit if I am, but I feel that this documentary will not offer those of us who have been following the case for years, with much to surprise us, and of course if its distribution is limited to youtube etc then it will be relatively futile as it won't reach the mass UK audience who would most benefit from it imo

Cristobell Sat 17 Oct 2015, 11:48 am

Neveronasunday wrote:How is she supposed to point out "discrepancies" without indirectly pointing the finger at two people in particular and therefore getting into trouble with Carter Ruck? The media did all this anyway back in August 2007 - dogs, lack of forensics in 5A, issues with the Tapas 9 timeline. Now they all toe the line, surprise surprise

Ok, I will wait until the programme has been aired on Internet Channel Zog Digital, and we will meet here the following day. But I predict there will be plenty of long faces and many recriminations

If mainstream TV thought they could contribute anything useful, the whole Panorama/World in Action/Sky News teams would be all over it rather than leaving it to someone who occasionally sits on a sofa winding people up

Should add, while I am on a roll, the entire business of documentary making is Iconoclasm! And the most successful documentaries are those that attack large businesses and corporations. Documentary makers can and do, make documentaries about world leaders, media moguls, royalty and McDonalds, do people seriously believe the Drs McCann are more protected than them?

Documentaries have been pointing out discrepancies in high profile criminal cases and major cover ups for years NOAS, its what they do. One could argue that it is the reason the entire documentary making industry exists.

Mainstream television, Panorama, World in Action, etc, have no shortage of subjects, they are inundated with news stories every day, stories that are of current interest to the public and stories that are not protected by multi million pound lawyers. 99 time out of a 100, stories will be discarded because they are simply not worth the time and trouble. Individual journalists choose the topics THEY want to focus on, and topics that they want to investigate, and topics that they hope will capture the zeitgeist. And once they have produced their masterpiece, they move onto the next subject, as I said, it is a fast moving world, and they don't want to be tied down in a complex legal battles.

That is not to say, that they don't take on seemingly impossible cases, of course they do, watch the BAFTA documentary awards, and you can see the struggles groundbreaking documentary makers with a passion for their subject, have had to overcome. If it was an easy business, everyone would be doing it!

I am not sure what it is you expect from Sonia's documentary NOAS. Whilst the theories of the armchair detectives may be interesting, presenting one or all of them as the definitive explanation as to what happened to Madeleine McCann, is ludicrous. As too is the idea that Sonia should present Kiko's detailed analysis of the telephone records, frame by frame. Whilst they may be of interest to the Cluedo players, the general public want the story in a nutshell.

Whilst you do of course have the right to your opinion NOAS, your sweeping statements about the documentary 'never being aired' and how we will all be deeply disappointed, are I'm afraid to say, a projection of your own negative view of the world. The reality is quite different.

Mimi Sat 17 Oct 2015, 11:54 am

Neveronasunday wrote:No Mimi, it's not that I'm not keen on SP (though her last Maddie venture into the national press was a fiasco) - I just know what the mainstream media is and isn't allowed to broadcast. If she manages to knock Bundleman on the head (not difficult) I suppose that's something, and there may be a few other things, but don't expect a Kikoratton-style analysis of the creche records or pixel-by-pixel dissection of the Last Photo

But out of respect to the opinions of other members, I'll leave it at that for now, and wait to see what I think of its content when it is broadcast

Ok Neveronasunday - I`m sure no one is expecting anything of the sort (bolded above).

I agree MSM won`t broadcast anything against the Mcs.

IMO anything that casts doubt on what MSM and Mcs have spouted, will do for me.

Cristobell Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:27 pm

susible wrote:This is the thing I don't really understand, that if posters like myself, HKP, Resistor etc ask any questions at all..usually in response to something that Sonia or Cristobell have tweeted/posted, then other posters automatically seem to assume that we are either against Cristobell and Sonia or are frightened/don't want the documentary to be aired, when that is not the case at all, certainly from my point of view. To be honest, I had never heard of Sonia until her short lived venture into The People's Voice tv thing and to be honest, she was just another dissenting voice, like the rest of us here, questioning the official McCann abduction story, so nothing special or different imo

As some of the comments are quite personal susible, it is difficult not to take them that way. You mention Sonia's 'short lived venture' scornfully. Some might see it as a leap of faith, a bold move, it shows that Sonia is willing and courageous enough to take chances. It is also worth noting, that behind EVERY successful person, is a string of failures. Some you win, some you lose.

As far as I am concerned, the only way we will get proper resolution to this case is through the two active police investigations and as such any documentaries be they by R D Hall or Sonia Poulton, won't make a sod of a difference in the greater scheme of things and my main concern was any possible interference in those ongoing investigations, in terms of scuppering a fair trial due to a media expose, that would work in the McCanns favour and as a result, mean that we would never get a proper resolution, arrests, charges and convictions. Cristobell's post the other day seemed to alleviate that possibility by saying that timing would be everything and there would be nothing that would compromise the current investigations..so as far as I'm concerned that's fair enough. However, I don't think that there should be problem with the likes of HKP asking questions about who the experts are, that seems to be a fairly innocuous question as far as I can see and I totally agree that HKP has the right to ask it. Fair enough if the answer is "sorry can't tell you for xyz reason" but in my opinion Sonia is trying to sell a product and as such I think it only fair that potential consumers have the right to ask certain questions prior to obtaining said product. Whilst I can understand that to divulge the entire plot and cast of characters would probably not be in Sonia's best interests, surely answering a couple of basic questions shouldn't be a problem?

HKP, indeed anyone, can ask away susible, doesn't mean they will get an answer, lol. Did people write to Crimewatch demanding to know who they consulted before making and releasing their program?

As I have repeatedly said, I am quite happy to wait to see the finished article, although I fully understand the frustration when a "Teaser" tweet is posted, which obviously encourages people to ask questions, Sonia is posting tweets to maintain interest in her product, so she cannot be unduly upset if people then do want further information. Ultimately though, and I am prepared to be wrong and will happily admit if I am, but I feel that this documentary will not offer those of us who have been following the case for years, with much to surprise us, and of course if its distribution is limited to youtube etc then it will be relatively futile as it won't reach the mass UK audience who would most benefit from it imo

I don't think she is unduly upset susible, why should she be? She has worked in the media industry for years, its all about criticism, lol.

Last sentence removed as liable to be misunderstood.

Bampots Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:46 pm

Cristobell Could you use the blue highlighter in future postings as the orange really makes it difficult to read!!
Then again I know why you didn't ! Laughing

**Freedom** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:49 pm

I've changed the colour to something more readable - or I hope that it is.

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:50 pm

@ Cristobell et al.
Can I just clarify, the questions I asked weren't to Sonia (she's not a member here as far as I know) they were to the forum members for discussion. I highly doubt Sonia will come here and answer any queries but it doesn't stop us from discussing what we see. She has a web page and a trailer, I took what's available so far and questioned it, is that not what we're here for.

The 'that's showbiz folks' quote is wholly inappropriate to this case IMO.

Meteor Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:57 pm

Been following this thread but haven't posted in a long time.

Why does HKP not answer Candyfloss on the RD Hall documentary I wonder? Concerned about 'going off topic'?

Give me a break! It seems the poster doesn't mind going off topic when it comes to getting a dig in at Cristobell. Of course we don't know what the outcome of the documentary will be. Of course we are all free to speculate and discuss t. I think what is unsettling for some posters is this rabidly determined attempt by one poster to undermine SP and direct insults at a respected poster o this forum, namely Cristobell.

Andrew Sat 17 Oct 2015, 12:59 pm

I wouldn't call it showbiz when we're talking about the death of little girl and trying to get truth and justice for her.

PMR Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:03 pm

+ 1 Andrew

**candyfloss** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:03 pm

When I read the showbiz word I though oh oh immediately. We all know it was not meant, a slip of the pen, perhaps Cristobell will correct it or as Freedom to do it. I agree it has come out wrong.

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:07 pm

As some of the comments are quite personal susible, it is difficult not to take them that way. You mention Sonia's 'short lived venture' scornfully. Some might see it as a leap of faith, a bold move, it shows that Sonia is willing and courageous enough to take chances. It is also worth noting, that behind EVERY successful person, is a string of failures. Some you win, some you lose.

I agree that personal attacks are not good, though at times, you attack others in defence of yourself, when you feel you are being attacked, and similarly others may respond negatively if they feel that you have attacked them. You have given a really good example in the above paragraph, claiming that my "short lived" statement was meant "scornfully" when it was nothing of the sort, it was a statement of fact, I could re-phrase and say the first I heard of Sonia when she was involved with TPV for a short time, it was just that my sentence flow was better they way I phrased it, means the same thing ultimately, but was certainly not meant in a scornful way.

Also I do not doubt that Sonia is prepared to take chances, at the height of the MSM xenophobia against Portugal in late 2008, I took a chance and wrote to a journalist from the NoTW asking her to retract her statements...I made a mistake in informing a forum (3A) about what I had done, showing my email to her and her response to me, with the result that many people emailed her with all manner of silly threats etc, but as it was my name, address etc that she had, she threatened to reveal my details in her column the following week...she didn't, but I know I am not alone in putting my head above the parapet in this case, and how it can have implications, so yet again, Sonia is not unique in that respect

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:11 pm

Meteor wrote:Been following this thread but haven't posted in a long time.

Why does HKP not answer Candyfloss on the RD Hall documentary I wonder? Concerned about 'going off topic'?

Give me a break! It seems the poster doesn't mind going off topic when it comes to getting a dig in at Cristobell. Of course we don't know what the outcome of the documentary will be. Of course we are all free to speculate and discuss t. I think what is unsettling for some posters is this rabidly determined attempt by one poster to undermine SP and direct insults at a respected poster o this forum, namely Cristobell.

Point to the appropriate thread with the question and I'll answer it there no problem.

Read Cristobell's own reply she agrees with my synopsys and goes into some detail of her life.

And your agreeing we can discuss Sonia's documentary, thanks it's good to know you approve.

Just for the record I don't trust anyone who's on twitter # McCann, they are a bunch of loons IMO (that includes both sides) and the makers of this documentary have history there.

Guest Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:13 pm

candyfloss wrote:When I read the showbiz word I though oh oh immediately. We all know it was not meant, a slip of the pen, perhaps Cristobell will correct it or as Freedom to do it. I agree it has come out wrong.

How do you know it wasn't meant, is this not exactly an example of someone's mindset

**Freedom** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:16 pm

Let's not get into another pointless battle of words, HKP. I could see what was meant but it didn't come out right.

**candyfloss** Sat 17 Oct 2015, 1:17 pm

Hongkong Phooey wrote:
candyfloss wrote:When I read the showbiz word I though oh oh immediately. We all know it was not meant, a slip of the pen, perhaps Cristobell will correct it or as Freedom to do it. I agree it has come out wrong.
How do you know it wasn't meant, is this not exactly an example of someone's mindset

Really?? you know what HKP everyone reading here can see for themselves and judge for themselves as to what is going on, I will leave it at that.

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