Missing flight MH370

Marky wrote:kinda strange it took best part of two years to find the air france airbus that went down in the north atlantic. even stranger is they knew roughly where to look.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447

Air France Flight 447 (AF447/AFR447[a]) was a scheduled, international, long-haul passenger flight, operated by the French airline Air France from Rio de Janeiro to Paris. On 1 June 2009 the flight was being operated by an Airbus A330 and, just after 02:14 UTC, the aircraft crashed into the Atlantic Ocean. All 228 passengers, aircrew and cabin crew aboard the plane were killed.[2]

While the Brazilian Navy removed the first major wreckage and two bodies from the sea within five days of the accident

because they knew roughly where to look. the bulk of the wreckage was on the sea floor and took two years to find even though they knew roughly where to look. floating wreckage and human remains from the malaysian triple seven, if any as this would have been a different kind of impact, would have long sank as in this case they didn't know where to look.

I agree it most likely sits at the bottom of the South India Ocean.

The Americans will almost certainly know as it flew past Diago Garcia if so.

Lioned wrote:I agree it most likely sits at the bottom of the South India Ocean.

The Americans will almost certainly know as it flew past Diago Garcia if so.

been a while but i seem to recall that it was suggested that both the chinese and americans possibly knew a little more than they were prepared to admit lest it gave the other a better understanding of ones capabilities.

Food for thought.....

I agree everybody will have different opinions about things that go on around us. Ok, I will concede on this one and agree that it is lost, whereabouts unknown. Now that could mean it may well be at the bottom of the ocean. It niggles just a bit, that with todays technology they are unable to find it....

What has piqued my interest is a system known as BUAP....heres a wiki page about it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Uninterruptible_Autopilot
The Boeing Uninterruptible Autopilot (BUAP), is a system designed to take control of a commercial aircraft away from the pilot or flight crew, chiefly in the event of a hijacking, and allow the craft to be remotely controlled to a landing at a designated airstrip. The action can be initiated either by crew or by government entities on the ground.  

So does that mean its impossible that an airliner could be hijacked ever again ?

More here....
http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/08/07/flight-control-boeings-uninterruptible-autopilot-system-drones-remote-hijacking/
Following the apparent ‘vanishing act’ of Malaysian Airlines flight MH370, many investigators and researchers began to question the likelihood of such an event happening in today’s high-tech world. At 21WIRE, we’ve also looked into the unprecedented disappearance of MH370 and the subsequent downing of MH17, as certain details have come to light regarding the history of the autopilot function within Boeing commercial airliners, seemingly opening the door to the events of 9/11…

The Boeing 777 along with other Boeing models, can in fact be flown remotely through the use of independent embedded software and satellite communication. Once this advanced system is engaged, it can disallow any pilot or potential hijacker from controlling a plane, as the rooted setup uses digital signals that communicate with air traffic control, satellite links, as well as other government entities for the remainder of a flight’s journey.

This technology is known as the Boeing Honeywell ‘Uninterruptible’ Autopilot System.

The mere existence of this technology would most certainly provide the final piece to a number of seemingly unsolved airline disaster puzzles in recent years…

And finally....
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=22683
Forum discussion
Worth a read....

It does make me think  

The plot thickens....Hmmm !!
Perhaps Pakistan is the fall guy. I did a bit of digging and found this video on youtube...Take a look.


I then began to wonder why Fox News would have a retired General on air suggesting that MH370 could be in Pakistan...Who owns Fox News ?
Rupert Murdoch....So why was he putting out tweets about the mystery of MH370...
Perhaps this article might explain.
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=93377

Malaysia Airlines MH370: The persistence of conspiracy theories

By Tom de Castella BBC News Magazine
A Boeing 777 - the same type of plane as MH370



Six months after the disappearance of Malaysia Airlines flight 370 it is still the subject of a slew of explanations. Why has this tragedy prompted such a wave of conspiracy theories?

Sudden, dramatic events often provoke conspiracy theories - particularly where the official version is disbelieved. Think JFK, Princess Diana, 9/11.

But in the case of MH370 there is not even an official version. Nobody knows what happened to MH370. It's a modern mystery.

"It is very rare to be able to proffer no convincing answer for an event," says Times columnist David Aaronovitch, whose book Voodoo Histories tackles conspiracy theories.

Then there's the context. After the revelations by Edward Snowden about the extent of global surveillance by the US National Security Agency, it seems somehow hard for laymen to believe that an airliner can just disappear. Everyone was thinking about surveillance but no-one could find the plane, says Jovan Byford, author of Conspiracy Theories: A Critical Introduction. "The incongruity of those two things has led people to think something was going on."

At the start, nearly everyone had a theory.

And because there was very little solid evidence, it was hard to debunk completely any single explanation.

But then information about the pings sent to a satellite from the plane showed it had ended up somewhere west of Australia. The theories began to fizzle out, only to intensify again in July when Malaysia Airlines MH17 crashed in Ukraine.

Some of those attempts to explain the mystery, reveal something of the nature of conspiracy theories.
Shot down by US/Thailand
Author Nigel Cawthorne believes the plane was shot down by US/Thai fighters during a military exercise.

"There's always a military exercise," says Aaronovitch. So many are going on at any one time that it's hardly significant.

US Sea Hawk helicopter aboard USS Pinckney during the search for MH370 in the Gulf of Thailand

On the other hand, civilian planes do sometimes get shot down. Korean Air flight 007 was shot down by the Soviet Union in 1983, the US Navy downed an Iranian airliner in 1988, and MH17 appears to have been shot down by mistake. In all cases, the crashes were reported quickly.

It might seem hard to believe that the US and Thai governments would either want or be able to hush up the shooting down of a Boeing 777 for six months. But part of the conspiracy theorist's art is to shout cover-up, says Sylvia Wrigley, author of Why Planes Crash. "Once the theory includes government cover-up it's incredibly hard to prove this thing isn't true."
MH370 and MH17 were the same plane
Wreckage from Air Malaysia flight MH17, which was shot down over Ukraine in July

Forums have seen discussions of claims that the plane purported to be MH17 at the crash site in Ukraine was actually MH370. Both aircraft were the same model but MH17 was a 1997 version as opposed to MH370, which Malaysia Airlines took ownership of in May 2002. Proponents of this conspiracy theory claim photographs from the crash scene show the plane was the newer version.

"The MH17 plane had an extra window next to the second right-side door, which MH370 did not - and neither did the wreckage" at the MH17 crash site, one account reads. Much of the theory centres on where the Malaysia flag appeared in the plane's livery.

According to a pro-Russian rebel leader, the bodies had been dead days before the plane took off. In this theory, the passports were supposedly pristine and had been planted on the dead bodies.

But other plane bloggers have rubbished this theory of the windows and flag. And then there's the detail of the theory. Could anybody steal an airliner with 239 people on board and keep it hidden for six months? Is it possible to believe it was loaded with corpses and substituted for a scheduled Malaysia Airlines flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur?

The coincidence of two Malaysia planes being the subject of a tragedy is exactly that - a coincidence, the experts contend. "The whole idea of coincidence is dismissed [by conspiracy theorists] as a very naive proposition," says Byford. Yet there is usually a statistical explanation behind coincidences. Malaysia Airlines flew the fifth most flights of any airline over Ukraine in the week before the shooting down of MH17.
In Pakistan for terrorism
Retired US Lt Gen Thomas McInerney argued in the wake of the plane disappearing that it was flown to Taliban-controlled Pakistan. It would be used against the US later. "If the Pakistani government doesn't talk soon they're going to be complicit in this," McInerney told Fox News, where he works as a military analyst. The plane could be used to carry weapons of mass destruction to hit an aircraft carrier or attack Israel, he said.

Is the plane in the hands of Taliban fighters?

McInerney's theory was based on the idea that Pakistan would have been consistent with the final ping from the plane to a satellite. He argued that the US government knew far more than it was letting on and did not want to embarrass allies in the region. Rupert Murdoch was one of those who had also speculated that the plane was in Pakistan.



But work done later by British firm Inmarsat ruled out the Pakistan theory. At first, using the plane's satellite pings, Inmarsat calculated the plane had either headed on an arc northwards over the Asian landmass or south towards the empty Indian Ocean. But within three weeks of the disappearance it had ruled out the northern arc, concluding the plane was somewhere in the southern corridor.

The latest search area is 60,000sq km (23,000 sq miles) of the southern Indian Ocean to the west of Australia.
Chinese submarine
British barrister Michael Shrimpton claimed that a Chinese submarine used a missile to shoot the airliner down south of Vietnam. There was a "person of interest" on MH370 whom the Chinese wanted to assassinate, although Shrimpton said he didn't know who it was.



But if the aeroplane had broken up at 30,000ft there would have been debris in the sea, says Wrigley. And the south of Vietnam was part of the initial search before it was switched.
Freescale staff intercepted
On MH370 were 20 employees of US technology company Freescale Semiconductor. It makes powerful microchips for different sectors, including the defence industry. Twelve employees were from Malaysia and eight from China. It led to speculation that they held important industrial secrets. In one conspiracy theory, the US government feared they would fall into the hands of the Chinese authorities. As a result, the plane was hijacked and taken to the US base on Diego Garcia.



In another variation of the theory, it was the Chinese who took control of the flight to interrogate the Freescale staff to find out the scope of US surveillance. There was yet another theory - that Iran put passengers on stolen passports onboard in order to get control of Freescale's technical knowhow.

Freescale says the employees onboard were technical staff travelling to the company's chip facilities for a review. A patent frequently cited by the conspiracy theorists does exist. But rather than being military in nature, it covers a system for optimising the number of circuits on a piece of semi-conductor material. And none of the four people mentioned as being the patent holder were on the plane.
Cyber hijack


At a conference last year, a security consultant called Hugo Teso hacked into virtual planes that were being flown on autopilot. He was using an android phone and an app he'd developed. The Independent called it "terrifying".

After MH370 went missing, anti-terror expert Dr Sally Leivesley suggested the plane could have been taken over by a mobile phone or USB stick.

So how vulnerable are planes to hacking? The Federal Aviation Authority said that Teso's hack would not work on certified flight hardware.

Wrigley says that the pilot can always turn off autopilot if the plane starts making unexpected course changes. If someone did hack into the aircraft and take over the plane using the flight management computer, they would have had no means of keeping that control. "If an aircraft flight management system could be hacked by remote control, it would cause a lot of confusion on the flight deck, but I can't imagine that any pilot would just sit back and watch while the aircraft changed course." In that event surely they would find some way of communicating the problem.

Continue reading the main story

“Start Quote

There's only one thing it can be - a deliberate act by someone on board, probably the captain”

End Quote David Learmont, aviation expert

Some theorists, says Aaronovitch, see money to be made from books and speaking tours. But whatever their motive governments can occasionally find them useful, says Byford.

Conspiracy theorists cannot bear life's messy reality, says Aaronovitch. "It's the fear of chaos." It's easier to believe in huge cover-ups than to accept no-one really knows what happened to MH370. Most people in the developed world fly and it's alarming to admit you don't know what happened to the plane.

The problem isn't speculating. "But speculating drawing on the established cult of conspiracy theorising is wrong. It's misleading and it locates the problem in the wrong place," says Byford.

In the case of MH370, there's no need to theorise, argues David Learmount, safety editor at Flight Global. "We know what happened. There's only one thing it can be - a deliberate act by someone on board, probably the captain."

Wrigley thinks this is too simple. The final ping from the plane is consistent with the idea that it ran out of fuel. But it seems implausible that a pilot wishing to kill himself and everyone on board would have chosen to allow the plane to fly until it ran out of fuel, Wrigley argues. "In my opinion someone diverted the aircraft and then something else went wrong - maybe a terrorist attack or kidnap."

Relatives await news of MH370 in Beijing

Aaronovitch doubts that MH370 will still generate masses of conspiracy theories in several decades' time. It is not an era-defining event like the JFK assassination. "You saw that shooting on television. JFK was all a generation talked about for a while." The feverish and conspiratorial atmosphere of the Cold War was part of it.

But for the moment, the case of MH370 will continue to be fertile ground for conspiracy theorists - unless the wreckage is found and the mystery solved.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29083905

whenever I see anything about the alleged Sandy Hook conspiracy and crisis actors, I just switch off. I am a bit of a conspiracy nut myself and believe there are many incidents in history that have not been adequately explained and too many questions left unanswered. I am also a realist though, and sometimes bad things do happen. Maniacs burst into schools and kill children, planes crash and parents who are responsible for the death of their child try to cover it up. No need for conspiracy to explain every bad event imo

Amen

susible wrote:whenever I see anything about the alleged Sandy Hook conspiracy and crisis actors, I just switch off.  I am a bit of a conspiracy nut myself and believe there are many incidents in history that have not been adequately explained and too many questions left unanswered.  I am also a realist though, and sometimes bad things do happen.  Maniacs burst into schools and kill children, planes crash and parents who are responsible for the death of their child try to cover it up.  No need for conspiracy to explain every bad event imo

nicely put.

I'm not saying academics don't get things wrong or that I trust Jim Fetzer, but this is interesting: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/01/07/top-ten-reasons-sandy-hook-was-an-elaborate-hoax/

As for this, I think these grieving parents make the Mccanns look incredibly believable:

Thomas, even the AboveTopSecret conspiracy forum refuses to have threads on the so-called Sandy Hook hoax, and if someone starts one it is immediately put into the Ludicrous Online Lies (LOL) forum. I have seen many of the parents of the children of Sandy Hook absolutely destroyed with grief, yes, some have got the courage to be interviewed about the events and have held themselves together, but I'm sorry, those innocent little children did die that day, yes that's horrible and in some ways it's preferable to think that they didn't, but they did.

I am Scottish and remember clearly the day that Thomas Hamilton burst into Dunblane primary school and murdered 16, 5yr old children and their teacher..it was senseless, it was horrible, it was barbaric and I will never forget the news reels, parents standing outside of the school waiting for news, absolute fear, terror and panic on their faces. Across the country, footage was shown of people picking up kids from school and just hugging them and crying..the worst thing imaginable, a place where little children were supposed to be safe, and they weren't.

Out of that came a raft of security measures, no one can just walk into a primary school now. Also one of the victims, Sophie North's father became a very vocal campaigner on gun control. I saw him interviewed many times and he had the same demeanour of the Sandy Hook parents, determined that the death of his daughter should not be in vain and that she should be remembered with pride and happiness, not fear, misery and pain and until anyone has walked in the shoes of those parents who have lost their children in such horrific circumstances, they are in no position to judge them and sometimes, even though we cannot rationalise such a horrific event and as such are determined to disbelieve it for whatever reason, I think we must never forget that terrible things do happen in the world without rhyme or reason. You may believe it's a conspiracy, I believe it is a terrible tragedy

susible, I'm not saying people weren't killed at Sandy Hook or that some of the parents weren't real. I'm just saying those two look fake to me. Ergo, I've done enough to show that the offical story is not 100% true, hence questions can be asked.

I really resent the idea that I can't grasp that sometimes terrible things just happen. When I was 18, I digested the complete works of Chekhov, my favourite author. There are two major motifs of Chekhov. The first is that bad things happen in life only because of random events, human stupidity and the evolutionary nature of life. The second is that you should concentrate on your own personal affairs and forget about fighting the powers that be.

So I lived like a monk until I was about 30. Then I started to wake up to things like the diet delusion and the medicine deluison and to see how easily humans are fooled. Finally I came to the Mccan story, which then took me to other conspiracies. So what I'm saying is, I'm very down to earth, but I know when I'm being lied to.

To be honest I despair at people who can't see parallels between the Mccann case and others like Sandy Hook. To play devil's advocate, sometimes paedophiles do walk into children's bedrooms and take little children. Maybe some of the 'haters' on this site should stop their conspiracy nonsense and start helping reunite a little girl with her mother, who I might add is suffering from terrible depression, and YET has still been courageous enough to introduce AMBER alert. You can all donate here: http://www.findmadeleine.com/about_us/madeleines-fund.html

Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, Thomas, but is the last paragraph a reflection of what you think?

That some people here are "haters" and should believe the McCanns?

What??? Are you for real? Kate McCann set up Amber alert...no she didn't as for donating to the sue Goncalo Amaral fund..I don't think I'll bother. The reason I have the view of the McCanns that I do, is because of their actions over the last 7 years.

As for the first paragraph, yes of course children are abducted and killed, but the scent of death isn't usually found on their mother's clothing unless she had something to do with it..but as far as I am concerned there was nothing fake about Sandy Hook and I refuse to take that video as proof of anything, all I see is two parents, trying to remember the best of their dead child and doing their best to try and prevent these types of things happening to other parents..I am not naive enough to think they won't because they will, but to accuse these parents of being fake is just ridiculous

As for digesting the entire works of Chekov..wow that must have given you serious indigestion...

Freedom wrote:Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, Thomas, but is the last paragraph a reflection of what you think?

That some people here are "haters" and should believe the McCanns?

Hmmm yes I agree Freedom, if it's a case of playing devil's advocate then fine, but it's a rather bizarre statement and of course untrue as Kate McCann did not set up Amber alert, that was Amber Hagerman's family in the US and the European system based on that was already in force in Portugal in 2007.

Freedom wrote:Apologies if I've misunderstood your post, Thomas, but is the last paragraph a reflection of what you think?

That some people here are "haters" and should believe the McCanns?

Lol sorry Freedom, it's just a form of therapy I've developed for myself: when Mccann sceptics poo-poo other conspiracies and suggest I'm a bit loopy, I come back at them with those Pedro Silva-Stop the Myths arguments to try and draw a parrallel. It's very cathartic.

The thing is, if I've understood correctly, you and Candyfloss will actually back a lot of the things I'm saying, or at least your minds are open. I always wonder how you two remain so cool. But I'm thankful for it, cos it lends credence to what you believe. I always recall how JD once threw his toys out the pram as regards 9/11 and you came in and said he was probably in the right. That was the point when I realised there must be something to 9/11. I think people like JD, Chillheat and me are a bad advertisement for what we are selling.

I get you - I think. I'm not an intellectual by any means but I do try to stay calm!

It wouldn't be a problem if you did support the McCanns but I hope that you - and anyone else - would have an open mind and be prepared to look at the other side of the story too.

To be categorically clear: I in no way support the Mccanns. They are obviously culpable, complicit or know what has gone on imo, and I find the fund and Kate Mccann with her depression and charity work utterly nauseous!!!

Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness...

I am what I am. I will question things if events or evidence seem staged. I know it probably puts a lot off by seemingly listening to a drone sit in the corner and say this is false, that is untrue or thats a cover up etc etc...Thats not my intention to be a drone or whatever waffling on, although I agree at times I probably do
I do find it difficult to write things down what is in my head, so thats my barrier. I dont come across very well at times I guess...
I do like it here and I do want to discuss matters more pertaining to Madeleines disappearance, but at times and for great lenghts the case becomes stagnant, and thats when I find it difficult to join in conversations....Im sorry. Your more clued up than me on the case...
Take this as an apology if Ive offended in any way by talking about conspiracies....

chillyheat, I think you're a great poster and I love the way your mind is open to all the LIES that we see at present in our media. It really warms my heart and makes me feel seine. You're a comrade in arms. It's just once you posted saying something like 'You'll probably think this is another wild conspiracy by Chillheat' so I got the impression you suffered from the kind of negative, comspiracy-loon stereotyping that I get.

So I was just saying that I think people might (quite wrongly) put you, myself and people like JD in a conspiracy loon bracket. But it's just par for the course I guess.

I agree about the case often going stagnant for long periods.

Most things I take a strange feeling are for things that seem pre planned, staged or the like. It is a well talked about in theories that we are all given knowledge of what TPTB have planned. Although it is subliminal, but its there. Its that power they hold over us...How the eff can we talk about things if they, in their minds have already let us know....Its hard to explain.
Take 9/11 for example...It was pre planned and the BBC showed it by informing viewers 20 minutes before building 7 collapsed.....They were on a script..IMO  
Were the McCanns ?
Gerry...."Im not here to enjoy myself"
Kate...."I have a bad feeling about this trip"
Kate................."They've taken her"

Yes I agree about that CH. It reminds me of the BBC show about terror in London BEFORE 7/7. IF it is true, then I think it's partly to condition us and plant ideas in our heads, in the same way that Derren Brown does, so that they don't feel so unexpected when they happen. Or maybe it's cos TPTB are just a bit sick.

ChillyHeat wrote:Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness...

***
Oops. I hope you're not offended. But I think that that statement is paranoia to the t ...
The word is: take in all information available, digest and, if possible, get to a conclusion on that basis. If additional information becomes available: do the same thing and so on ...
THAT is awareness :-) Paranoia is unfounded.

Love reading the posts on this thread it reminds me of a saying.I need to know the ins and outs of fart