Operation Grange

Dee Coy wrote:AndyB's take on why CEOP were commissioned for the scoping exercise is food for thought.

Indeed,now just bear with me a minute,theres a possibility of two crimes,1)either theres an abduction or 2) the parents are involved, out of the two which would the easier be to investigate?

Heisenburg wrote:

AndyB wrote:

Mimi wrote:Why did the McCanns want a review? You can bet your boots they didn`t want an investigative review.  But why just a review? Is it, as I have pondered, that they were/are in conflict with the government or MI5/6 ?  That the government wants to keep something else covered up that GM has threatened them with - `do as I want or I will talk`.

There would be much that OG could investigate in the UK that the PJ could not.  Not just the fund but their health records, their banking records, their credit card records, their phone records, in fact every record there is on them. Also they could interview every person associated with them, including Brian Kennedy, Dave Edgar, John Lowe, Jim Gamble, Clarence Mitchell, the money laundering fellow who has written a book saying the McCanns partook in Charlie, the T7, Sheree Dodd and why she left, the directors of the Fund, the nursery staff at Madeleine`s play school, Cat the nanny, Martin Grimes (in the USA), Martin Grimes`s boss who was phoned by GM.  Remember the interviews given by the T7 were never expected to be published so they may be entirely different after all this time; also all the people in the UK associated with Robert Murat. I`m sure there are many more.

Yes, OG could do all of that but could only do so legitimately if they were investigating a crime committed within their jurisdiction. Madeleine's disappearance happened in Portugal. Portugal is not in the Met's jurisdiction. Therefore Grange is not a legitimate investigation. Is there a fault in my logic?

None what so ever,which is why I posted about section 9 of the  offences against the person act,that is the only legit reason they can investigate a crime in a foreign country imo.

I will post it again

"Murder or manslaughter abroad.

Where any murder or manslaughter shall be committed on land out of the United Kingdom, whether within the Queen’s dominions or without, and whether the person killed were a subject of Her Majesty or not, every offence committed by any subject of Her Majesty in respect of any such case, whether the same shall amount to the offence of murder or of manslaughter, . . . F1, may be dealt with, inquired of, tried, determined, and punished . . . F1 in England or Ireland . . . F1: Provided, that nothing herein contained shall prevent any person from being tried in any place out of England or Ireland for any murder or manslaughter committed out of England or Ireland, in the same manner as such person might have been tried before the passing of this Act. "

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/24-25/100/section/9

http://www.ukpolicelawblog.com/index.php/9-blog/84-murder-abroad

What's_up_doc? wrote:In April 2011 there was a meeting between the UK and Portugese before UK investigation announced:

So London's top prosecutor and her deputy visited Portugal mid April to consult with Portuguese officials about Madeleine's disappearance.  And subsequently, Theresa May has announced that Scotland Yard will be opening their own investigation. 

Wasn't this April 2013, wud? I think it was prior to the OG review becoming an investigation in July 2013.

Sorry DeeCoy I've just muddied the water, confusing the investigative review 2011 with the investigation 2013.

This What's_up_doc? wrote:Sorry DeeCoy I've just muddied the water, confusing the investigative review 2011 with the investigation 2013.

Not at all. Significant as the review was upgraded to full investigation following Alison Saunders' visit there. I'd forgotten It happened. Wonder what was discussed?

Dee Coy wrote:

This What's_up_doc? wrote:Sorry DeeCoy I've just muddied the water, confusing the investigative review 2011 with the investigation 2013.

Not at all. Significant as the review was upgraded to full investigation following Alison Saunders' visit there. I'd forgotten It happened. Wonder what was discussed?

That's the million dollar question! I'm with you insofar as I think it really has gone too far for a cover up. I don't think the public would buy it. I also think it's a watershed possibly, because the public is ahead of the game in terms of what has been officially disclosed and I can't think of any other case like it in the UK.

Dee Coy wrote:

This What's_up_doc? wrote:Sorry DeeCoy I've just muddied the water, confusing the investigative review 2011 with the investigation 2013.

Not at all. Significant as the review was upgraded to full investigation following Alison Saunders' visit there. I'd forgotten It happened. Wonder what was discussed?

Evidence and prosecution.

And whether there was sufficient of the former to proceed with the latter.

(and how the UK will assist Portugal in all of that)

IMO etc.

Now that the final verdict from the Supreme Court has been issued - what are we waiting for?

Helenmeg wrote:Now that the final verdict from the Supreme Court has been issued - what are we waiting for?

All in the wording imo,if a statement is made.

Lately, we have had a continual out pour of Maddie-related articles - all rubbish -all pro McCann - all defending McCanns and keeping the abduction myth alive. There must be a reason for this and not just because the 10th Anniversary is looming. They all smack of desperation.
Things go quiet when Team McCann are feeling OK  - they only get like this when something is happening. So I am hoping that this desperate flurry means that they think something is happening. Why else would this be happening?

I agree Helenmeg I think for a long time the McCanns felt in control and powerful and suddenly they look vulnerable and desperate. They seem to be trying earlier tactics, wheeling out the same rogues' gallery to spout the same old twaddle. Only difference is the level of public support is now non existent and the true facts of this case seem to be common knowledge. So I agree, they appear quite desperate to hold back the tide of negative opinion but it really isn't working. I'm not sure what the media are playing at because if they genuinely support the McCanns they would leave them alone - I think it's mischievous because they know they will get a strong reaction and they can expose the McCanns whilst keeping their own powder dry. So the narrative goes nasty Mr Amaral causes more heartache blah blah but really they are signposting Amaral and other critics and allowing the comments pages to do the talking IMO. I wonder if there has been some off the record briefing? I hope it's a sign.

Well, Pat Brown tells us the OG will not come to anything because it was requested by the McCanns, and they would only have requested it if they were either innocent, or if they had the political influence to keep it on the abduction theory.

If the McCanns are guilty and did not have enough political influence to assure them a review by Scotland Yard wouldn't end up biting them in the ass, they hardly would have stumped for a review of a case already shelved by the Portuguese

I disagree, sort of. I think that the McCanns BELIEVED that they have the influence to keep the investigation where they want it.

They may be right this time, maybe they did have enough influence to be safe getting Scotland Yard to investigate the abduction. It strikes me as a high-risk strategy, a long investigation gives time for a new political landscape, gives time for their powerful friends to retire, to be voted out, to get bored of them.

Long term, their self belief (some might say arrogance) will be what brings them down, they seem to be unable to understand that the tide of public opinion is turning, slowly. They still believe that they have the ability to keep everything quiet. They may be able to keep that going until Madeleine's 18th birthday, maybe even after that to the twins 18th birthday, but eventually, the "It is not about us, it is about the harm to Madeleine" will stop working in court.

Maybe even before that they will find their friendly tame solicitors are less friendly and tame if they don't have the money to pay them.

Once upon a time, when I said that there was something wrong with the abduction story, people felt I was the most uncaring person ever, now people are more likely to say "well, DUH, I can't believe I actually sent them some money".

But the McCanns never requested an investigation did they, they requested a review and to consolidate the Portuguese and British files to see what the PJ had...  It turned into a full blow investigation though by both countries, I don't think they were expecting that.

I've had a feeling [and I cannot remember where that came from - must have been something I read somewhere and then forgot where], that Theresa May was already preparing an SY review and that's why the McCs request was in the papers and looked like it was awarded ... They've always tried [with help] to be a little in advance of something going to happen IMO

Admin wrote:But the McCanns never requested an investigation did they, they requested a review and to consolidate the Portuguese and British files to see what the PJ had...  It turned into a full blow investigation though by both countries, I don't think they were expecting that.

I thought the Scotland Yard review was merely to find the abductor, with the implied instruction to find the McCanns innocent? Admittedly, that view came from the newspapers.

Yes the 'scoping exercise' had been completed and they were going to be looking at the case I believe Chatelaine, that is what I read too.  The story was just the usual spin we are accustomed to getting I think, and imo.

mumof6 wrote:

Admin wrote:But the McCanns never requested an investigation did they, they requested a review and to consolidate the Portuguese and British files to see what the PJ had...  It turned into a full blow investigation though by both countries, I don't think they were expecting that.

I thought the Scotland Yard review was merely to find the abductor, with the implied instruction to find the McCanns innocent? Admittedly, that view came from the newspapers.

Its not the job of the police to find any one innocent its their job to collect evidence or not as the case may be.

ITV NEWS CONFIRMS OPERATION GRANGE UPDATE
New post Mo Today at 10:32 pm

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ITV News have confirmed there will be an update in the Madeleine McCann case tomorrow

Heisenburg wrote:

mumof6 wrote:

Admin wrote:But the McCanns never requested an investigation did they, they requested a review and to consolidate the Portuguese and British files to see what the PJ had...  It turned into a full blow investigation though by both countries, I don't think they were expecting that.

I thought the Scotland Yard review was merely to find the abductor, with the implied instruction to find the McCanns innocent? Admittedly, that view came from the newspapers.

Its not the job of the police to find any one innocent its their job to collect evidence or not as the case may be.

It can be the job of the police not to look for any evidence in a specific direction, and thereby be able to state that there is absolutely no evidence etc.

Admittedly, one would hope that in most western countries that would not happen, especially when the reputation of Scotland Yard is involved.

According to the ITN News at Ten, Scotland Yard will be making a statement tomorrow about their investigation. I wasn't paying attention when it was mentioned at the end of the broadcast as something to look for tomorrow, so I can't relay the exact wording.

candyfloss wrote:ITV NEWS CONFIRMS OPERATION GRANGE UPDATE
New post  Mo Today at 10:32 pm

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ITV News have confirmed there will be an update in the Madeleine McCann case tomorrow

Thanks Mo for that, and espeland too.

Any takers as to what this will be?

It might be better to delete my new thread Candyfloss

My thoughts on the update is closure of the case.

I see from twitter there is a statement from the McCanns on OFM,

candyfloss wrote:I see from twitter there is a statement from the McCanns on OFM,

Thanks to Freedom, have given it its own thread here

https://maddiemccannmystery.forumotion.co.uk/t1885-statement-from-kate-and-gerry-mccann-on-findmadeleine-com#86082