Doubts on Mrs Fenn's statement?

Freedom wrote:

I would like to see some proof that Mrs Fenn was a close friend of Mrs Murat. Maybe they knew each other to say hello to in the street but that's not the same thing.

Couple of British old dears living practically across the street from each other? It's not exactly a massive leap really is it?

Myosistis is here. God knows why but can you have the decency and honesty to explain some of the things upthread. 

OK... Decency and honesty not your strong point as everyone knows.

Can try though...

Seicento wrote:

Freedom wrote:

I would like to see some proof that Mrs Fenn was a close friend of Mrs Murat. Maybe they knew each other to say hello to in the street but that's not the same thing.

Couple of British old dears living practically across the street from each other? It's not exactly a massive leap really is it?

I've known lots of "old dears" living next door to each other, who detest each other with a passion. We cannot make any assumptions.

Even if Murat took Mrs Fenn's call - so what? Even if she and Mrs Murat were friends - so what?

Probably being thick, but why does that make her statement suspicious? TB must think Murat is pivotal to this case - is he Birch in disguise?

Bit lost.

It's possible that Mrs Fenn (who did not speak Portuguese) may have relied on Mrs Murat for help at times but that's just a guess.

I can imagine that - they were neighbours and I'm certain will have known each other. I still don't understand why the relationship should undermine Mrs Fenn's statement. I imagine most regulars in Luz knew the Murats - does that make everyone a liar with intention to be false alibi?

At the end of the day, Mrs Fenn is a rare primary witness. It's strange these insinuations have emerged only after she is no longer around to reply. Where were the doubters before her death?

You beat me to it after I instantly forgot.

Thank you.

Here's one about Birch mentions TB for interest.

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/a-birch-too-far.html

Both Gerry and Kate in their statements on the 4th:
'Why didn't you come when the twins were crying?' Is the question allegedly asked by Maddie.

Imo that is the truth, twins cried on 1st. Not that Maddie ever asked this, but it was to be a means of proving her being alive on the morning of the 3rd.

Event known to McCanns and they would also think that Mrs. Fenn probably knew. Look how many problems are solved -
Tuesday night quiz night at Chaplins (not Tapas). Somebody from OC came over to tell them the children were crying and they came home. A 2 + yr old is easily capable of saying Daddy or Mummy.

Mrs. Fenn was only wrong in linking the crying to Maddie, understandable since the focus was on her.

mcCanns were already sure that Mrs. Fenn knew, what's more likely than that the neighbour complained to OC staff about the crying? OC then go to Chaplins, they have to go back. In the middle of Happy Hour too.


So, move the whole thing to Wednesday, have Maddie crying on her own in the end , shorten the period of time of crying, McCann versions progress) suggest a recce by the abductor, waffle about tea stain on pyjamas and hey! Out of jail free.

I'll post the references at the weekend. The crying progresses from twins, to Sean and I, to Maddie crying alone in the statements and interviews.

Dr Amaral believed Mrs Fenn
Dr Amaral believed the Smiths
People in the UK are believing in Dr Amaral and raising money for him

So we have another cack handed diatribe by TB against Mrs Fenn and the Smiths

They are 'liars' which by implication makes Dr Amaral a poor detective with poor judgement

Why does anybody give Bennett the time of day?

Remember he can only write about this case if the Mccanns approve his words
That should tell you all you need to know

He has though been commenting on the Smiths since well before the agreement to keep quiet in 2013 and I'm fairly sure that some topics about Mrs Fenn's statement predate that as well.

JJ wrote:Dr Amaral believed Mrs Fenn
Dr Amaral believed the Smiths
People in the UK are believing in Dr Amaral and raising money for him

So we have another cack handed diatribe by TB against Mrs Fenn and the Smiths

They are 'liars' which by implication makes Dr Amaral a poor detective with poor judgement

Why does anybody give Bennett the time of day?

Remember he can only write about this case if the Mccanns approve his words
That should tell you all you need to know

So that's the way it works in simple (me) terms, now I get it.
It does tell me all I need to know! Thanks JJ

Freedom wrote:He has though been commenting on the Smiths since well before the agreement to keep quiet in 2013 and I'm fairly sure that some topics about Mrs Fenn's statement predate that as well.

Is this right? Forgive me, I myself only became really fascinated by the case after CW 2013, and joined CMoMM then. I noticed TB's anti-Smith posts starting to emerge as time went on and thought his contrary view had evolved as a result of CW?

I was banned from there and subsequently deregistered myself, so can't search his posts. Could anyone still a member locate some earlier Smith undermining? From before TB's court case, perhaps? It would be interesting to understand when he formed his opinions of Smithman.

I know that there are many Smith topics - perhaps someone is a member can have a look.

I also recall someone on the Missing Madeleine site saying that when Tony was a member there in 2008 or 2009, he was querying the sighting even then.

It certainly isn't a recent development but has just become more insistent.

Thanks, Freedom. That's interesting and has put a slightly different slant on my perceptions.

Freedom wrote:I know that there are many Smith topics - perhaps someone is a member can have a look.

I also recall someone on the Missing Madeleine site saying that when Tony was a member there in 2008 or 2009, he was querying the sighting even then.

It certainly isn't a recent development but has just become more insistent.

I honestly don't remember that.  Perhaps he queried timings etc., but I don't think he called into question the Smith's integrity and called them liars and that they made it up, did he?  I'm sure someone will put me right though.

No, he didn't express it in those terms.

If I'm wrong, I'll be happy to say so, but my memory (which can sometimes be faulty alas) is that he always doubted the sighting.

I still believe that Mrs Fenn heard one (or both) of the twins crying "Maddie, Maddie" when their sister wouldn't "wake up".

Hence the "we never called her anything like that" fiasco.

Resistor wrote:I still believe that Mrs Fenn heard one (or both) of the twins crying "Maddie, Maddie" when their sister wouldn't "wake up".

Man, that's a depressing thought.

I have a holiday home in a small none touristy French village. You do get to recognise peoples faces without necessarily ' knowing ' them. That's why I can accept the Smiths knew it wasn't Murrat carrying Maddie that night but that they aren't protecting a friend

Resistor wrote:I still believe that Mrs Fenn heard one (or both) of the twins crying "Maddie, Maddie" when their sister wouldn't "wake up".

Hence the "we never called her anything like that" fiasco.

An hour+ is a long time for a small tired child to be crying.

I feel sick to my stomach typing this but I think that if it had been the twins crying "Maddie", after the initial panic they would have calmed down and their crying lessened rather than worsened. They were 18 months old - too young to understand death.

Mrs Fenn said the crying stopped as soon as the parents entered but, as anyone who has ever comforted a distraught child will tell you, children don't/can't suddenly stop crying like that and may have even got worse at the relief of seeing mummy & daddy.

I agree with you Resistor that Mrs Fenn probably heard "Maddie, Maddie" but I think she heard Kate's high pitched whiney voice. Of the 5 occupants of that apartment, she would have expected the crying to have come from a child rather than an adult so put 2 and 2 together and thought she heard a child crying "Daddy".

That is the scenario that seems the most likely to me but it is pure speculation so I could be wrong.

Personally, I think Mrs Fenn and the Smiths told the truth but they are just part of the bigger picture surrounding the case and are being used to distract from the facts that:

1) There is no evidence of a break in.

2) Specialised sniffer dogs indicated death only around the McCanns - not their friends and not the Murat family.

3) The McCanns themselves are proven liars.




The twins were 27 months old.

Thanks to   Rufus T     over the way for this link to the GNR officer who mentioned Murat 's call re the crying.
What is interesting is that his statement is from 16/5 and he mentions an English speaking woman who has already been interviewed. Mrs Fenn's statement is dated Aug so unless she gave more than 1 statement it can't be assumed it was Mrs Fenn who called Murat.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/

Witness Statement


Date: 2007/05/16


Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa


Occupation: GNR Officer


He has been a GNR officer since 1996. He is a soldier and works at the Lagos GNR post.

On 3rd May when he was at home, he was contacted by the GNR post commander who asked him to go to P da L.

He arrived at the OC at 00.05 on 4th May having contacted his colleague Nelson Costa who informed him about the situation.

After having been informed ha began to search the perimeter of the tourist complex. First he revised the perimeter alone and was later accompanied by Officer Pimentel. During his time on the scene he did not talk to anyone.

Neither did he enter the apartment from which Madeleine had disappeared. There many people at the scene but nobody particularly drew his attention.

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

Foreign women, as in more than one, have checked the translation and is definitely women.

Rufus T wrote:Foreign women, as in more than one, have checked the translation and is definitely women.

Yes, not English speaking - Murat as an Englishman would not call someone who is the same nationality as him foreign would he.

Who was it who went into the apartment and comforted Madeleine who was on crying, did we have a name.