ITV This Morning 21/02/17

Satsuma wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Satsuma wrote:

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?

He doesn't have to - the dogs didn't prove anything. But his theory isn't necessarily incompatible with what  the dogs may or may not have found

The dogs proved everything, IMO.

There was just a deliberate attempt to fudge any corroboration with it otherwise it would've been game set and match straightaway.

ETA - And MW-T in his 'report' just played it safe by watering it all down.

The dogs proved nothing, Andrew
And before we get posters saying there was a bloodbath behind the sofa,  no there wasn't. There were a few microscopic spots of blood across a wide area, whose origin has never been demonstrated, including one in the cement underneath a tile which couldn't possibly have been the result of a violent death

Who said anything about a violent death and as I said the FSS watered down any findings so it was 'inconclusive'.

There would've been a thorough clean up as well so what was left was missed.

And the Cadaver dog certainly smelt the scent of death there, amongst other places/items only associated to the McCann's. Surely you can't dispute that one, Sat....

That was my point above Poe....but fell from wall into patio/fl9wer beds.....the dogs alerted there!

Agreed, Poe.

Bampots (or anyone) can you find a picture of exactly where the flower beds/faint alerts were......

Can't find any visuals

Need to do some work be back in a bit.

got one but this piece of s#it wont play ball!!

http://www.genreith.de/MMcC/lib/exe/fetch.php?cache=&media=firsttrack.jpg

Link to photo of flower bed . .. contains heavy paving slabs......someone bring it across!! Please.......

Bampots wrote:That was my point above Poe....but fell from wall into patio/fl9wer beds.....the dogs alerted there!

That's a very good point (that I missed in your post )

I wonder why they chose 5a. There are tiled steps, low walls with high drops on the other side, a swimming pool out front and a main road out back - the whole apartment is a death trap for unsupervised toddlers. It was early in the season so there would have been other, safer apartments available.



There's your picture, Bampots.

Just quickly knocked these up as well, Bampots:




And from Poe's pic from the other page:



Now is it possible for a near 4 year old under sedation to perhaps climb up (2nd pic) and fall the other side (1st pic).....?

The green star in that pic..... What does that indicate?

Come on Andrew ....  your being coy.....Dog Alert!!

I was looking for more pictures and found this:

http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/09/madeleine-mccann-died-after-fall-down-steps/

Madeleine McCann ‘died after fall down steps’
Author: admin | Files under In the News
By Caroline Gammell in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 30/09/2007


Portuguese police believe Madeleine McCann died after falling down a flight of steps and that her parents panicked, hiding her body because they feared being blamed, it was claimed yesterday.

It was alleged that the four-year-old smashed the back of her head on a ceramic flagstone at her family’s holiday apartment in Praia da Luz.
Fearing they would be charged with manslaughter, Kate and Gerry McCann then got rid of the body, possibly with the help of their friends, it was alleged.

The latest theory against the couple, who are official suspects in their daughter’s disappearance, was dismissed as “ludicrous and unsubstantiated” by their spokesman.

It emerged as a source close to the McCanns said police were investigating claims that a disgruntled ex-employee from the Ocean Club, where the family was staying, may have been involved in Madeleine’s abduction.

Mrs McCann has said she would be willing to risk going to prison by speaking out about the events of May 3 in breach of Portugal’s secrecy laws. As suspects, or arguidos, the couple are prevented from speaking about the investigation, and have expressed frustration that they are not able to defend themselves against increasingly lurid allegations regarding their daughter’s fate.

Despite the ban, they are in talks with chat-show hosts in the US in an attempt to remind people Madeleine is missing.

Yesterday, the McCanns spent a quiet day in their home town of Rothley in Leicestershire, marking 150 days since their daughter disappeared.
They are adamant that she was abducted but police in Portugal were described as “100 per cent” certain that the little girl died in the family’s apartment in the Algarve.

A senior detective told Portuguese newspaper 24 Horas: “The only thing to investigate is how the body disappeared.” The newspaper claims Madeleine fell down steps at the back of the apartment. Photographs taken at the time show a children’s safety barrier above the steps.

The new theory emerged after a report from Britain said specialist sniffer dogs had detected the “smell of death” on the steps, it was claimed. In the past, Mr and Mrs McCann, both 39, have been accused of hiding their daughter’s body because she had been sedated.

But yesterday, a source close to the couple hit back at the allegations.

“Where is the proof that this happened? Madeleine was put to bed at 7pm and there was a witness. When is Madeleine supposed to have fallen?
“If the police are 100 per cent certain that Madeleine fell down some steps, that means they must be able to prove she died in that way. It’s just not possible without a body.”

The couple’s spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, added: “It is just ludicrous. All of these reports are unsourced and unsubstantiated.”
A tip-off claiming that a former Ocean Club employee was involved in Madeleine’s disappearance was sent to the Prince of Wales’s official website, and passed to police.

It alleged that a maid who used to work at the Mark Warner resort kidnapped Madeleine in revenge for being fired. Police have discovered the woman identified does exist and that the tip-off came from an email address registered in the Iberian peninsula.

Andrew wrote:Just quickly knocked these up as well, Bampots:




And from Poe's pic from the other page:



Now is it possible for a near 4 year old under sedation to perhaps climb up (2nd pic) and fall the other side (1st pic).....?

Easily.....your kid must be very well behaved....one of mine climbed out out cot at 9months!! An agile three year old.....one foot on gate push up to wall .....overbalance .....the rrest as they say! Am i MTW yet.....i dont even believe this is what hapoened!!!

Bampots wrote:Come on Andrew ....  your being coy.....Dog Alert!!

Nope. That doesn't back up the evidence from the files as mine does... Hence why I asked the question.

See quotes from the files upthread. Directly below. Not the other side of the garden..........

I come back to you....btw you probably right as i only found the pics they not my work!!

@Poe. I posted this link the other day on here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564725/Madeleine-McCann-died-after-fall-down-steps.html

It never got whooshed at the time like so many did either.

As far as I know/recall... then Keela didn't find any traces of blood on the steps or at the bottom (nor in the flowerbed for that matter), so I find it hard to contemplate that she could fall on a hard surface like that and not shed any blood. However I suppose a fall into something softer like a flower bed from height could possibly kill her but NOT leave any trace of blood? Or would it... I genuinely have no idea.

Just speculating....

Andrew wrote:9.49 to 10pm: The cadaver dog "marks" an area of the garden immediately below the window

we can observe that a cadaver odour was detected in the garden adjacent to apartment 5A

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/EDDIE-KEELA.htm

I think the interpretation is mangled.....they mean ......i think...in the garden which is immediatley below window....any way from a video of PJ textusa has marked areas....and shown where on this here blog...
It is a contentious issue Andrew and worth reading her explanation.....she shows Gonçalo pointing diagonally opposite in the corner shown by green star.....
The reason for the disagreement is clear....below wall =fall.....opposite corner=hidden cadaver!!


http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2015/05/cadaverine.html?m=1

Which of course explains the lack of blood.....the stakes are really high in this morbid game .....and little things mean a lot!!!!

The scentings in the garden were faint, iirc, indicating the sources were 'secondary'. Deposited via another medium, perhaps through a bag placed briefly there, or diluted within water used perhaps for washing the apartment inside the door or the clothes which may have been contaminated and hung to dry over the wall...

All speculation, but the weaker alert would indicate the primary source was not in situ or in situ very briefly. And as someone said above - no blood alert in the garden.

I'll come back to that Textusa blog a bit later on when have more time to digest it.

Just wanted to put this up though as well as I didn't know (or forgotten) about the veranda itself:

Veranda outside parent's bedroom.
Garden area directly under veranda.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Ok - had a skim read and I WILL read it properly later.

But quickly.... The files specifically say 'directly below' and because Textusa has a still shot from a video of Goncalo stood over the veranda waving his arm over said veranda which points to that spot marked X (green star in above pic) she concludes that that is the point where Eddie alerted to but there is nothing from Martin Grime in the files to corroborate that.

Unless I've missed it.

Help us out here, Bampots

I'm struggling.

(And I don't think for one min that Tannerman is Gerry McCann which she alludes to )

(And I also don't think that Murat's property was used as storage)

Give me some convincing, Bampots

Andrew that was the bit i was most impressed with....jane stands at window and reports what she has seen......Gerry .......thus she is telling the truth with a bit of fabrication and obsfucation.....
Anyhoo the positions are clear.....for those of a MWT inclination ......under wall=fall.......and NEGLECT! 
Oppisite corner occultation and NO NEGLECT.....
Take your pick!??

Scan down.... 

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_EDDIE-KEELA.htm

Tah dah!!

Apologies, I'm not really giving this the attention it deserves due to being busy at work... But what am I supposed to be scanning down to?

A quick glance/read and and I still can't see anything relating to 'green star' location...

I don't doubt for one minute that Jane Tanner at some point witnessed Gerry carrying M in that position but I don't think she saw him carrying M off down to Murat's pad.

Just my own personal opinion.