The Mystery of Ben Needham

joyce1938 wrote:I think I have a memory of a road being constructed,at that time ,now does anyone else recall that ? Did the child fall and have accident that day ?joyce1938

Hi Joyce. Not sure about an actual road...

But this is what's snipped about the accident theory from Wiki:

Accidental burial theory

In October 2012 police from the UK travelled to Greece to search an area that they believed might contain Needham's remains. On 19 October Greek police, assisted by a team of specialist search advisors from South Yorkshire Police, began an operation to examine the grounds of the property from which Ben disappeared.[10] The operation, involving geophysical survey equipment, forensic archaeologists and Human Remains Detection (HRD) dogs, was triggered by a police line of inquiry that Ben had been accidentally buried by an excavator driver dumping building rubble nearby. The operation failed to detect any trace of the child.

Freedom wrote:That does sound a feasible possibility but I find it hard to believe that the family could have managed to keep the dreadful secret from Kerry for all these years. 

Her younger brother was only 11 - could he have been persuaded to say nothing?

Without wanting to be gruesome - in this hypothetical scenario, what could have happened to Ben's body to ensure it would never be found?

The younger brother I would imagine wasn't told.

I suspect that the older men went off and found that an accident had happened.

There would have been massive shock and panic. People are not thinking rationally at all. I would imagine that what happened was news that no-one wanted to give to Kerry or her younger brother. And certainly not news that Kerry would want to hear.

I suspect a hasty decision was made.

It could be that someone (villa owner?) has some police contacts. A lot of scandals have been attached to the police force associated with this disappearance.

But, as you say, a hypothetical scenario. But a lot more likely than an abduction.

And I think allowing a 21 month year old on the back of a moped being driven by a 17 year old is grossly negligent.

Of course I feel sorry for the family. But I do feel that they made a very poor decision in terms of taking risks with Ben's safety.

As mentioned the other day - I'm interested to know more about this 'hypnosis' episode with the Uncle...

But I just can't see a 17 year old lad and his Dad covering up the accidental death of there Nephew/Grandson.

... and before you say it - the McCanns is a completely different scenario.

And that they did.

Imo.

I wish we knew if the house's owner and any other workmen confirmed that they saw Ben there that day.

It always raises suspicion when something awful happens when the normal routine isn't followed. This was the first time Ben had ever been taken there, so I understand.

Freedom wrote:I wish we knew if the house's owner and any other workmen confirmed that they saw Ben there that day.

It always raises suspicion when something awful happens when the normal routine isn't followed. This was the first time Ben had ever been taken there, so I understand.

I think this is Michaelis Kypreos at 0:45 seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKyUQEcdlUA

where he confirms that Ben left the table, a few seconds after the uncle (Stephen presumably) did.

Okay, that answers that then, thank you.

Andrew wrote:As mentioned the other day - I'm interested to know more about this 'hypnosis' episode with the Uncle...

But I just can't see a 17 year old lad and his Dad covering up the accidental death of there Nephew/Grandson.

... and before you say it - the McCanns is a completely different scenario.

And that they did.

Imo.

People panic. They make rash decisions when in a panic. The very worst scenario has just unfolded and the brain can't take it in.

I remember once having a (thankfully minor) car accident. I was driving abroad. The traffic light system was different - overhead rather than at the side of the road and I didn't see the red light and slammed into a woman in front of me.

The car was damaged at the front to the extent that the bonnet was sticking right up so I couldn't even really see properly. But I still tried to drive away. It was a panic reaction - the equivalent of a 'hit and run'. I had friends with me and of course they told me to stop which I did very quickly. But the point is my initial reaction was to get the hell out of there so I did not have to face a confrontation.

I've been in a few situations - nothing illegal - where I wished I'd been honest from the start as you have to keep on lying to cover up the original bad action and, the longer it goes on, the more impossible it gets to tell the truth.

I rather think that this might be the answer here - not to mention the McCanns too.

Andrew wrote:

joyce1938 wrote:I think I have a memory of a road being constructed,at that time ,now does anyone else recall that ? Did the child fall and have accident that day ?joyce1938

Hi Joyce. Not sure about an actual road...

But this is what's snipped about the accident theory from Wiki:

Accidental burial theory

In October 2012 police from the UK travelled to Greece to search an area that they believed might contain Needham's remains. On 19 October Greek police, assisted by a team of specialist search advisors from South Yorkshire Police, began an operation to examine the grounds of the property from which Ben disappeared.[10] The operation, involving geophysical survey equipment, forensic archaeologists and Human Remains Detection (HRD) dogs, was triggered by a police line of inquiry that Ben had been accidentally buried by an excavator driver dumping building rubble nearby. The operation failed to detect any trace of the child.

Well that is interesting. I don't believe it was an accidental burial for one minute. That is highly unlikely but of course not impossible.

However, it does raise the suggestion that Ben has been buried. Which I think he was and probably quite nearby given the timescale involved.

Deleted

The roads on some of the Greek islands are so pot-holed and badly maintained that driving a motorbike or moped would be a pretty dangerous activity. As I've said allowing such a very young child on the back of a moped driven by a 17 year old - if this did indeed happen - would be asking for an accident to happen, imo.

One time I was approaching a left turn and put my indicater on to turn, but it was right beside a zebra crossing. A young child seen me stopping for her and walked across. However, the car behind me, which was driving too fast overtook me and knocked the child right up into the air. The driver did slow down but didn't stop and drove on. I was able to get the plate number and gave it to police. The next day the driver went to the police himself and said he drove off in shock. The police asked me what I thought could stop this from happening again and I told them that the crossing was way too close to the turn off. Now there's a pedestrian crossing with lights and a good bit further down than the other one was!

Good stuff, ddl. Well done.

Andrew wrote:Good stuff, ddl. Well done.

Thanks Andrew, I do wonder why it was put at that spot in the first place

Freedom wrote:I've been in a few situations - nothing illegal - where I wished I'd been honest from the start as you have to keep on lying to cover up the original bad action and, the longer it goes on, the more impossible it gets to tell the truth.

I rather think that this might be the answer here - not to mention the McCanns too.

Agree. In the Needham case I think it was a tragic accident. But of course if Ben did indeed fall off his Uncle's moped it was extremely reckless
Rest Deleted

You are stating things as fact.  Please do be careful what you post.

How quickly did the Needham case get into the press I wonder?

Of course in both the McCann and the Needham cases the last people to see the child alive were the parents and their close friends.

In the Needham case the villa owner was with the family at lunch and saw Ben. He even says that he gave him a drink of coke. So the villa owner seems quite intimate with the family. To the extent of sitting around a table having lunch and helping the toddler to a drink.

In the McCann case David Payne claims he saw Madeleine at around 6.30pm so that makes him the last non-family member to see her alive. And he also claims that he saw her in the McCann apartment. I think this is hugely significant. He didn't just see her out and about in a public space. He saw her in the intimacy of the McCann apartment. This places him, imo, very closely indeed to what may have happened.

Interesting to see some parallels here, perhaps, in terms of who might have been involved.

Theories, as always.

The police must know that neither of these children can ever be found, imo.

Which really makes you wonder about some of these missing people organizations?

How many cases of missing people are genuine?

And look at the McCann involvement with the missing people organization in the USA. Makes that look dodgy too, imo.

poster wrote:

Freedom wrote:I've been in a few situations - nothing illegal - where I wished I'd been honest from the start as you have to keep on lying to cover up the original bad action and, the longer it goes on, the more impossible it gets to tell the truth.

I rather think that this might be the answer here - not to mention the McCanns too.

Agree. In the Needham case I think it was a tragic accident. But of course if Ben did indeed fall off his Uncle's moped it was extremely reckless
Rest Deleted

You are stating things as fact.  Please do be careful what you post.

Sorry! Heard.

I really don't know the facts about either case. I just have theories which might be completely wrong. I hope they are wrong actually.

Statement released from South Yorkshire Police:

Hundreds of calls in just one week for Ben Needham team
Nearly 300 pieces of information have been received by officers investigating the disappearance of Ben Needham since the policing team landed in Kos to progress the investigation a week ago.

A press conference was held on Tuesday last week (10 May) with Greek media outside the farmhouse where Ben was last seen. As a result, the team received around 50 calls, which were answered by Greek- heritage officers working within the Operation Ben team.

The appeal also had a huge impact in the UK, with around 75 calls made to the team’s base in Sheffield, as well as messages via social media.

Officers then appeared on a hugely popular Greek television show about missing people on Friday evening (13 May) to appeal to those who watch the show, which is about half of the Greek population. As a result, 20 calls were received to the studio and a further 120 calls were made to the Operation Ben officers.

Detective Inspector Jon Cousins, the Senior Investigating Officer for Operation Ben, said: “We are committed to finding answers for the Needham family - they deserve to know what happened to Ben and have been living with heartache for almost 25 years.

“We have spoken to hundreds of people during the first week of us being in Kos and it has proven incredibly worthwhile and valuable to the investigation. One of the key benefits to us being in Kos is that local people have felt comfortable in coming forward and speaking to us; they also desperately want answers about what happened to Ben and we are dedicated to ensuring no stone is left unturned in the search to find him.

“The bulk of the calls relate to potential sightings of people who may resemble the age progression photograph of Ben. We are, however, sceptical as to the accuracy of this image as Ben was so young when he went missing it’s almost impossible to predict what he may look like. However, there are a small number of more interesting lines of enquiry that we are working very hard to progress.

“The main lines of enquiry are also bearing considerable fruit and a number of key people we needed to speak to have now been identified.”

One man’s DNA was taken by the team in Kos last week following information received via the Helpfindben Facebook page which suggested he could be Ben. Tests have confirmed that the man in question is not Ben Needham. The Operation Ben team will remain in Kos for another week exploring various lines of inquiry.

Anyone with information can email the Operation ben team at opben.needham@southyorks.pnn.police.uk. Alternatively, you can call them on 01142963025.

- See more at: http://www.southyorks.police.uk/news-syp/hundreds-calls-just-one-week-ben-needham-team#sthash.RYzoGwUB.MOCVOMdS.dpuf

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7155536/Greek-local-who-came-forward-claiming-to-be-missing-Ben-Needham-is-DNA-tested-by-Brit-detectives.html

... Not Ben though.


Ben Needham ‏@FindBenNeedham 2h2 hours ago
NEW LEAD ON BEN'S CASE!
Witness claims he saw Ben in July '91 in a roma camp in Samos island.

Did that witness do anything about it at the time??

I personally think if Ben was alive he'd have figured it out by now, with him being a grown man. Unless he's in a basement all these years. Poor child, someone's bound to know what happened and where he is IMO

I tend to go with the theory, that Ben had an accident with a relative present. Family tried/did cover up and never had the courage to tell Kerry. IMO solely.

Châtelaine wrote:I tend to go with the theory, that Ben had an accident with a relative present. Family tried/did cover up and never had the courage to tell Kerry. IMO solely.

Sadly to say those are my thoughts too Chatelaine.

dogs don't lie wrote:I personally think if Ben was alive he'd have figured it out by now, with him being a grown man. Unless he's in a basement all these years. Poor child, someone's bound to know what happened and where he is IMO

Agree.

But everything points to his having had an accident that afternoon, imo, which was covered up. It was easier to pretend he had been abducted than face the reality of the situation and have to tell Ben's mum what really happened. (Although she may have had suspicions of course.

All theoretical and nothing stated as fact. But we DO know that there is no evidence of an abduction either.

And the family's account of that afternoon is suspicious, imo, and suggestive of a certain scenario.

I'm finding it suspicious that Christine decided to take Ben to the farmhouse on the spur of the moment.

According to the book it took 50 minutes for her to walk there (not 30 minutes as reported), all the way uphill, whilst it was 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees Celsius) with her younger son and Ben in the pushchair.

Has anyone seen an aerial view of the farmhouse? None that I can find.