Operation Grange

Andrew wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Heisenburg wrote:How any more cupboards and storage ares can there been left to search in Belgravia.

Just one more where you'll find the McCanns and the Tapas lot cowering.

That door is firmly bolted.

Just waiting for the special key to unlock it.

OG aren't allowed access to it.

Good job the PJ have a spare set.

Helenmeg wrote:
. OG have chosen to make somethings very public when it pleases them - the dogs involved in the searches Portugal - the photos of them 'digging' etc etc .

The Ben Needham digs brought up evidence according to SYP to enable them to declare that Ben died in an accident,the OG digs brought up nothing,save for OG to vastly reduce its operation some 12 months on.Digs in summer 2014,OG scaled back Autumn 2015,its gone nowhere fast.

Didn't the OG digs find 'something' that was to be sent back to be analysed by the lab - I seemed to remember something... will go check it out

19:46, 11 Jun 2014
   By Martin Fricker


Hopes of a breakthrough in the Madeleine McCann case have been dashed as searches in Portugal ended without any evidence being uncovered.

The missing youngster’s parents Kate and Gerry had been bracing themselves for “significant news” during the unprecedented eight-day operation.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/madeleine-mccann-search-ends-without-3676918

But Scotland Yard admitted no evidence linked to the long-running case had been found after searching 60,000 sq metres of land in Praia da Luz.

The news will be a devastating blow for the couple, who hoped clues to their daughter’s disappearance seven years ago could finally emerge.

British teams searched two new sites on the outskirts of the resort - but came away empty-handed. A week-long search of scrubland close to the apartment where Madeleine vanished in 2007 also failed to throw up any clues.

Scotland Yard detectives are expected to fly home tomorrow and return to Portugal at a later date to quiz eight suspects.

In a statement the force insisted the investigation was still in its early stages and said further activity in Portugal will commence “shortly”.

It read: “At this time no evidence relating to Madeleine McCann has been identified.

Map: Police search areas


“However it has given us an essential understanding of the activity on and people that have used this piece of land.

They wouldn't have announced it even if they did find something of significance, imo.

And I wouldn't be surprised if we later find out that they actually did. Again, imo.

Keep faith. They're the experts ... Patience.

God how i hope that what you say is correct Châtelaine....more than anything i want your text to mean.....i know!! I have insider knowledge!
Not just faith.....and i want to believe that the Police who shot Jean Charles de Menzes are the experts....not the ones in this Spectator article.....

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/the-shocking-truth-about-police-corruption-in-britain/

I do,i do,i do....

Cant see anything happening until the decision on the Mc Canns appeal - which seems to be due December / January sort of time.

Dec/Jan 2036/37 at this rate.

But pre Xmas would be good. Fingers crossed.

Still find it bizarre that things appear to rest on the trial outcome though.

candyfloss wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:

Andrew wrote:And what, the OG team get a rebate from the Madeleine fund for it. Nah, can't see that, Chirps.

No I'm not suggesting OG are getting a kick back. I'm saying their narrow remit was laid down by those protecting the parents.
I, like some of you, struggle to think why OG didn't come up with a nice tidy solution, similar to what we are hearing in Ben's case. A couple of years to make a show of exploring all avenues, then, light bulb moment; it was the ( insert your own dead patsy here)
what done it.
So instead of looking at it from the view that it must be legit because it is taking so long, I am saying there is some kind of deal which lets this run endlessly.
After all a dead child ends the gravy train.
There cannot be a properly run investigation going on as it would be looking at this case from every angle, including the parents. So why have the Tapas 9 not been hauled in long ago? If this ( and other) little fora can see the bleeding obvious, then surely 30 odd professional detectives can.
After so many years of examining this case I am beginning to wonder if we aren't all part of some huge social experiment.

Chirpy how can you say this, how can anyone say this - how do you know what they are doing, how do you know they are not looking at every angle and most importantly, how on earth do you know who has been hauled in for questioning?  It is where the investigation leads them that will decide who is questioned.  I would have thought it would be on their list though to interview anyone who was there on the night of 3rd May and days before and after.   It is an investigation and we have not right to know who is being interviewed - it causes a media circus, you only have to look at the Jo Yeates murder and the person accused and the headlines that happened, plus it would or could prejudice any future trial if there were one.  The time for moaning if people think it is not to their liking is when it concludes and not before imo.  We are not privy to what they do, and that is how it should be.

Candyfloss. I respect your right to an opinion on this, I truly do. I hope you are correct, I truly do. But how can anyone still have faith in an investigation that has not hauled those parents in for further questioning?
You say we don't know who has been questioned. I think we would have heard if there was a sniff of the parents being pulled in.
If you think of other instances of missing people, the cops usually start with the nearest and dearest and the Macs should be questioned in order to be eliminated one way or another.

A) They are, by their own admittance, the last people to see Madeleine alive.
B) Statistically, at least, they are 90% likely to have been involved.
C) For their own peace of mind all avenues should be explored and (if innocent) any normal people would want that documented.

If my child disappeared I would know suspicion would fall on me. It's natural. So I would want the police to investigate every avenue so they could eliminate me and get on with finding out who did it. If I was guilty, on the other hand, I would be delighted if the investigation was only permitted to follow a remit that relied solely on what I said happened.
Just suppose I accidentally killed my daughter and wanted to cover it up. I tell lies that are so transparent a blind man could see through them. I expect to have my collar felt any day but by some miracle, someone decides that they will only look at the story I told them, which was that she was abducted by aliens. 34 policemen and women investigate the fairy story for 5 years, knowing full well there is something not right about my tale. Yet I' m not only still free, I've written a book and sued anyone who dared question me. I've become an ambassador for missing people, even though I admitted leaving my child alone to go out on the lash. I am untouchable.
Would this actually happen in the real world? Innocent people have been imprisoned for years on flimsier evidence, so how can the McCanns continue to escape investigation?
For me there is only one reason they are still walking smugly around, laughing at us all, while they collect donations to look for their daughter. The daughter they know will never be found.

Leave it to the Squad [Serious crime and murder]. They'll hit when they have the ultimate evidence.
Imo, of course.

Yes, we have our opinions but you are still saying how can they not have been hauled in?  Again I say you do not know who has been seen by SY.  Everyone there that night, and the days before and after, would almost certainly have been spoken to, it is what happens in investigations chirpy. Do you honestly believe the persons there that night have not been interviewed, whether the McCanns, their friends, nannies etc.  No matter if the evidence pointed away from any person there that night, I am sure they would still  have been interviewed anyway to get their information.  This is my bugbear with this case, people keep saying they know what Op Grange have done or not done,  No one knows!

candyfloss wrote:Yes, we have our opinions but you are still saying how can they not have been hauled in?  Again I say you do not know who has been seen by SY.  Everyone there that night, and the days before and after, would almost certainly have been spoken to, it is what happens in investigations chirpy. Do you honestly believe the persons there that night have not been interviewed, whether the McCanns, their friends, nannies etc.  No matter if the evidence pointed away from any person there that night, I am sure they would still  have been interviewed anyway to get their information.  This is my bugbear with this case, people keep saying they know what Op Grange have done or not done,  No one knows!

If they have been interviewed under caution - which they should be for a number of reasons, some of them to do with their own protection - I would expect this to be made public. The fact that we haven't heard about it can only lead me to conclude that it hasn't happened.

chirpyinsect wrote:
Would this actually happen in the real world? Innocent people have been imprisoned for years on flimsier evidence, so how can the McCanns continue to escape investigation?
For me there is only one reason they are still walking smugly around, laughing at us all, while they collect donations to look for their daughter. The daughter they know will never be found.

Can you imagine the Police approaching the family of a missing child and saying "Look, sorry like, but we think your kid, who's been missing for years, is probably dead."

And the family replying indignantly "Well don't look at us - they were alive when we sold them!"

That'd be weird. In fact I can't actually see it, myself...

The fact, that we haven't heard anything, makes me believe they're doing the right thing ...

candyfloss wrote:Yes, we have our opinions but you are still saying how can they not have been hauled in?  Again I say you do not know who has been seen by SY.  Everyone there that night, and the days before and after, would almost certainly have been spoken to, it is what happens in investigations chirpy. Do you honestly believe the persons there that night have not been interviewed, whether the McCanns, their friends, nannies etc.  No matter if the evidence pointed away from any person there that night, I am sure they would still  have been interviewed anyway to get their information.  This is my bugbear with this case, people keep saying they know what Op Grange have done or not done,  No one knows!

You are wrong in that I don't claim to know who OG have interviewed. How could I know? But if they have re-questioned the parents, my blind man analogy comes into force. If we amateurs can poke holes in their story, surely professional detectives could.
So, either OG officers are stupid and can't see what's in front of them... I doubt that .
Or they have not recalled the Tapas lot for more questioning, which makes their motives even more suspect.
I'd love to think they are beavering away in a darkened room, with justice Madeleine foremost in their mind, but I don't think that is what is happening. It's not lack if evidence that's preventing an arrest, it's lack of political will.
Sorry but I smell a rat.

chirpyinsect wrote:
Sorry but I smell a rat.

That same rat has made it past my sinuses and is now eating my brain.

Andrew wrote:Dec/Jan 2036/37 at this rate.

But pre Xmas would be good. Fingers crossed.

Still find it bizarre that things appear to rest on the trial outcome though.

Well so do I in a way ... but it just means that all loose ends in Portugal are tied up - this case is so politically restrained that it probably makes sense to ensure
that Portugal dont go and decide that Mc CANNS have won their appeal - as that wont fit in nicely with teh truth coming out... anyway its all a load of

Châtelaine wrote:The fact, that we haven't heard anything, makes me believe they're doing the right thing ...

Me too. Anyhow, police have what I would call the most important first statements, from all who was there, word for word in the PJ files and a lot more.
IMO

PJ / GA got it all nailed back in late 2007.

The weight of the Govt came steaming in because they got duped.

Embarrassing stuff.

A simple mess. imo.

People say OGs remit is to treat Maddies disappearance as an abduction therefore they won't question the parents,but (as stated) her parents were the last to see her properly so they would HAVE to be questioned as witnesses if nothing else. Personally I don't hold with the if they had been questioned we would know about it angle and that is why. I have said more than once if OG was a whitewash it would have ended years ago and the dead Patsy would have been found. To me the previous size of the team,then the reduction etc indicate that there is more than one person and more than crime being investigated

PMR wrote:People say OGs remit is to treat Maddies disappearance as an abduction therefore they won't question the parents,but (as stated) her parents were the last to see her properly so they would HAVE to be questioned as witnesses if nothing else. Personally I don't hold with the if they had been questioned we would know about it angle and that is why. I have said more than once if OG was a whitewash it would have ended years ago and the dead Patsy would have been found. To me the previous size of the team,then the reduction etc indicate that there is more than one person and more than crime being investigated

I think that's a good point PMR. We are all trying to understand how the parents haven't been charged with something. I suppose it's possible that we wouldn't hear about them being requestioned, but if they have been, I just struggle with why the obvious isn't staring the police in the face.
I also agree with you that a whitewash should have been taken care of years ago. That was always my stumbling block.
So why has it not been conveniently swept under the rug? OR .... Why have there not been arrests?
Is it because there is no body? People have been convicted of murder with no body to show, so not necessarily that.
Not enough evidence? Circumstantial evidence is often the only evidence and OG had the resources to check a lot more than we ever could. I'm talking phone records, photos, the dogs etc.
If the police suspect the parents but there isn't enough to proceed with a conviction then we usually get some stock phrase like we got in the Sir CR case, where there was not enough evidence to prosecute.
If they have proof that the parents weren't involved ( real, cough. Or fabricated) then surely they would have come out with something by now. Whoever wants them protected surely wouldn't make them wait this long for exoneration. And exoneration is what they want.
So that leaves us with another scenario. That this case is not as simple as the disappearance of a child.
Of course, we musn't forget that it is only the PJ who has jurisdiction on the "abduction" side of things. OG are advisory only in Portugal.

chirpyinsect wrote:
So that leaves us with another scenario. That this case is not as simple as the disappearance of a child.
Of course, we musn't forget that it is only the PJ who has jurisdiction on the "abduction" side of things. OG are advisory only in Portugal.

Your views are very similar, if not identical, to my own. I have believed for a while that the McCanns themselves are not being protected but are the collateral beneficiaries of an operation to cover something up, although I have no idea what of course. Having said that, there might be something going on that I haven't considered. Do you have a view on what it might be that lies beyond the simple disappearance of a child? And, just out of interest, are your current views being informed by conversations with your contact that has a friend in the met?

AndyB wrote:

chirpyinsect wrote:
So that leaves us with another scenario. That this case is not as simple as the disappearance of a child.
Of course, we musn't forget that it is only the PJ who has jurisdiction on the "abduction" side of things. OG are advisory only in Portugal.

Your views are very similar, if not identical, to my own. I have believed for a while that the McCanns themselves are not being protected but are the collateral beneficiaries of an operation to cover something up, although I have no idea what of course. Having said that, there might be something going on that I haven't considered. Do you have a view on what it might be that lies beyond the simple disappearance of a child? And, just out of interest, are your current views being informed by conversations with your contact that has a friend in the met?

To answer your last question first. No I have only spoken three times on FB to this person. We first made contact about the story in the press about the supposed attempted kidnapping of a child at a Cypriot hotel. This is when we discovered a common interest in the case. I contacted her back in May because her name was mentioned in a newspaper article about donations to GA. That's when she told me about her Met friend and the other contact who mentioned the previous holiday in Greece.
As I said at the time, I have no way of knowing if her contact is reliable but it seems an odd thing to come up with. I do trust my contact though.
She doesn't give much away and neither does the person who told her about the holiday. She doesn't want to push it but is hoping more will follow.
I hate that and wish people would just spit it out but maybe there are reasons.
My feelings on OG are purely my own take on things. I struggle to believe that 34 officers were working blind but were there really 34 of them? Could be a good front for covert funding for something else. I mean when do we ever hear of x million being put aside for 1 missing person? A special funding from the Home Office, for an investigation with no jurisdiction. Nah!
There have been lots of rumours over the years, such as paedo rings and Irish connections, to name but two. Quite how M fits into all this is baffling.
Was the whole thing a sting to cast a wider net?
One thing I don't believe is that is has anything to do with swinging or the Macs being paedos. If it was that they would be under the bus long ago.