Re: ITV This Morning 21/02/17

Meteor Wed 22 Feb 2017, 5:50 pm

candyfloss wrote:So, Mark Williams-Thomas theory then, where does that leave Kates many recitals on video of how the window was open and the curtains went whoosh! Where does that leave Kate's version of events, rather redundant it would seem and leaves you wondering about the implication. His theory was Madeleine left through patio door, then why was the shutter up and the window open? Madeleine certainly couldn't open it....... It's no wonder the McCanns are rather unhappy with him!

This here is the key point.

What MWT has said casts serious doubt, in the public's mind, as to the reliability of the official McCann narrative. If Madeleine wandered off and was then abducted, why were the shutters/window interfered with in the McCann's version?

Oooops!!

Scrants Wed 22 Feb 2017, 6:15 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:
Scrants wrote:

Just seen this from Katie Hopkins

Not really been following all this to be honest but wonder if it isn't lawyers getting stories/opinions pulled but OG making a polite request?

Too optimistic?

I was wondering that as well. I hope so!

Bampots Wed 22 Feb 2017, 6:18 pm

unreorganised wrote:
Bampots wrote:
Its selective and appears to be the same as Danny Collins book year or more before!!

The only Danny Collins I know of was a half decent centre half. Anybody know more about the guy? It's not one MWT's pen name is it?

He looks like a proper Diamond Geezer!

Satsuma Wed 22 Feb 2017, 6:58 pm

The WAW theory is a plausible one, but it leads to 2 questions - what day, and what happened to her next, ie was she found dead or fatally injured

Many of the papers are saying that MWT's theory is that she wandered off in the middle of the night. If so, it can't have been May 3rd because everything was kicking off by 10pm

chirpyinsect Wed 22 Feb 2017, 7:14 pm

unreorganised wrote:Was it ever established if tracksuits can be stylish?

If it's good enough for Vicky Becks then it's good enough for me.

**candyfloss** Wed 22 Feb 2017, 10:43 pm

Blimey 208 comments here, not very nice reading for the McCanns.

You need to scroll right down to near the bottom, where it says join the conversation and click on that to bring up comments.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/kate-and-gerry-mccann-baffled-after-tv-detective-unveils-astonishing-new-theory-about-madeleines-disappearance-on-this-morning/ar-AAncaBg?li=BBoPWjQ

TheTruthWillOut Wed 22 Feb 2017, 10:58 pm

I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?

Andrew Wed 22 Feb 2017, 11:03 pm

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?

Cadaver Dogs
Cadaver dogs are used by the police in England and Wales in a number of different
situations, such as in the search for missing people or homicide victims. The dogs are
trained to detect vestiges of human blood and the odour of corpses. The dogs were
brought over to Praia da Luz by Martin Grime, at the time a South Yorkshire Police
Officer, at the request of the Portuguese police between 1st to 8th August.
It is a moot point as to whether or not this time gap before using the dog team was too
great to have produced significant results.
20
Searches were made by the dogs on the following areas: Mr Murat’s property;
Apartment 5a; Western and Eastern Beaches; and ten different vehicles. Dogs
positively indicated corpse odour inside apartment 5a; in the couple’s bedroom, in a
corner close to a wardrobe, in the living room, behind the sofa, in the area immediately
outside the flat; on two pieces of Kate’s clothing, and also on one piece of Madeline’s
clothing.
The cadaver dog also identified traces in a flower bed in a back yard close to apartment
5a and in various places related to a Renault Scenic car, which had been hired by the
McCanns over two weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance.
For example, the cadaver dog positively signalled a vehicle key, and another dog -
specially trained to identify blood, identified traces on the vehicle’s key, and the interior
of the Scenic’s boot.
These results undoubtedly influenced the police thinking to such an extent that
Inspector Carlos specifically maintained that it was after the dog searches that the
McCanns were made arguidos.
Even so, the positive results from these dog searches were not confirmed in relation to
any DNA evidence taken from apartment 5a, or from the McCann’s hire car.

Recommendation - The use of cadaver dogs should be very carefully considered by any future
senior investigating officer. Also when used very careful consideration should be given to relying solely
on their evidence.

ETA - Missed a bit:

DNA
Forensic tests were performed by the Forensic Science Service (FSS) in England and
Wales and their final results did not corroborate any of the positive signals given by the
dog searches, either in the apartment being rented by the McCanns, or in their hire car.
Indeed the statement given by the forensic scientist stated that:
In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs
similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible
to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not
possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine
McCann.
Even so, the reliance by the police to use the evidence presented by the dogs was in
this case significant and damaging. It enabled the investigation to become focused on
the McCanns and thus ignoring all other possible lines of enquiry.
In short, the police gave far too much strength to the dog evidence and as a result it
now seems clear that they set out to establish a case against the McCanns. After all,
the use of dogs and the evidence that they provide is not “science” and is often a
matter of judgement and interpretation on the part of the dog handler. So too it
should also be remembered that the dog cannot be challenged and therefore presents a
significant breakdown in the evidence chain.

TheTruthWillOut Wed 22 Feb 2017, 11:15 pm

Thanks, Andrew. I'm not even going to bother responding to that except to say that now you could say exactly the same about the FSS re: the "recommendation".....

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 12:05 am

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/590706/Madeleine-McCann-mum-dismisses-claim-wandered-away-Portugal-Kate-This-Morning

TheTruthWillOut Thu 23 Feb 2017, 12:07 am

So what is really going on here....?

Are the media getting the M's to deny other scenarios publicly until there is only one left?

TheTruthWillOut Thu 23 Feb 2017, 12:24 am

@Andrew

I got a reaction from the dogs to MWT's critique:

ITV This Morning 21/02/17 - Page 7 H981AN7

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 8:34 am

Haha. Quality.

Satsuma Thu 23 Feb 2017, 8:56 am

TheTruthWillOut wrote:I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?

He doesn't have to - the dogs didn't prove anything. But his theory isn't necessarily incompatible with what the dogs may or may not have found

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:06 am

Satsuma wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?
He doesn't have to - the dogs didn't prove anything. But his theory isn't necessarily incompatible with what the dogs may or may not have found

The dogs proved everything, IMO.

There was just a deliberate attempt to fudge any corroboration with it otherwise it would've been game set and match straightaway.

ETA - And MW-T in his 'report' just played it safe by watering it all down.

Bampots Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:12 am

It is not Sat....the scenario of waking and walking through patio doors and falling from the wall would all fit with the dogs......tragic if that was the case......but if it was would that make any of the last ten years less criminal?

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:21 am

It was mentioned by Canada12 the other day that there was lots of speculation in the early days of M wandering off and hiding etc the previous night.

Will just bring this post over from the late Ironside (3A's forum)

IRONSIDE » Mon May 26, 2008 2:01 pm

Hi Jailhouse 'which is what I think gerry went back to the appartment to do....Mccann said he arrived at tapas at 8.30...Oldfield says the mccanns were late ,they arrived at 8.58 pm...If true why would gerry return to the appartment so soon..??..I have just seen a reconstruction on a spanish blog,according to this gerry was just coming out of the gate and bumped into wilkins.They were speaking outside of the appartment.

Something else that also puzzles me, it was alleged that madeleine disappeared for about 30 mins the day before. It is also alleged neighbours helped to search for her..She was found hiding in bushes.

There were witnesses to this event.If they had said madeleine had wandered off again the following night ,I am sure they would have been believed.

The only fly in the ointment that I can see,is that they would not have been believed by the family,I saw an interview the following day with kates mother,who said . Madeleine had a sleep disorder,kate used to sedate her,that is how we know she would not have wandered off..

When asked kate states I cannot tell you how I know she was taken ,because it is part of the investigation...and yet Alex Woolfall tells a completely different story,he said at no time did the mccanns think madeleine had been abducted,but had wandered away....??????

Bampots Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:26 am

[size=41]e only fly in the ointment that I can see,is that they would not have been believed by the family,I saw an interview the following day with kates mother,who said . Madeleine had a sleep disorder,kate used to sedate her,that is how we know she would not have wandered off..[/size]

Thats a massive statement to make without any hint of a link from Ironside......one which would certainly have survived if true!!

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:33 am

Bampots wrote:[size=41]e only fly in the ointment that I can see,is that they would not have been believed by the family,I saw an interview the following day with kates mother,who said . Madeleine had a sleep disorder,kate used to sedate her,that is how we know she would not have wandered off..[/size]

Thats a massive statement to make without any hint of a link from Ironside......one which would certainly have survived if true!!

It's an intriguing one. The early stuff is always very fascinating to read.

Last night I went on 3A's briefly and just typed in 'wandered off' in the search facility. It led me to that and thousands others. Not got the time to go through it all but that one just stood out so thought I'd post it up.

**candyfloss** Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:36 am

Here is the incident when Madeleine ran away from G. McCann statement 10th May...

----- Asked, he stated that besides her own apartment MADELEINE only went to the apartment of DP and FP, since it was common that they frequented each others' apartments.
----- That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

Satsuma Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:44 am

Bampots wrote:It is not Sat....the scenario of waking and walking through patio doors and falling from the wall would all fit with the dogs......tragic if that was the case......but if it was would that make any of the last ten years less criminal?

It depends upon who knew what, BP, and that has never been proved. But the range of offences would be different

Satsuma Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:48 am

Andrew wrote:
Satsuma wrote:
TheTruthWillOut wrote:I haven't read MWT's WAW theory....How does he explain the dogs?
He doesn't have to - the dogs didn't prove anything. But his theory isn't necessarily incompatible with what the dogs may or may not have found

The dogs proved everything, IMO.

There was just a deliberate attempt to fudge any corroboration with it otherwise it would've been game set and match straightaway.

ETA - And MW-T in his 'report' just played it safe by watering it all down.

The dogs proved nothing, Andrew
And before we get posters saying there was a bloodbath behind the sofa, no there wasn't. There were a few microscopic spots of blood across a wide area, whose origin has never been demonstrated, including one in the cement underneath a tile which couldn't possibly have been the result of a violent death

Satsuma Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:50 am

More to the point, I don't understand how it's possible to categorically state that she didn't WAW when nobody was there to disprove it

Andrew Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:54 am

candyfloss wrote:Here is the incident when Madeleine ran away from G. McCann statement 10th May...

----- Asked, he stated that besides her own apartment MADELEINE only went to the apartment of DP and FP, since it was common that they frequented each others' apartments.
----- That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GERRY-MCCANN-10MAY.htm

So he doesn't know what day that M and the twins (2 year olds) managed to get into some gardens?

And he's clearly playing things down and down for a reason. There was probably a lot of truth in the speculation that she ran off and hid in the bushes and this was his way of obscuring it and bringing the twins into it as well..... scratch

If M was expecting an 'injection' before bedtime then there's every reason to suspect she might try and run off.

IMO etc..

Poe Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:55 am

Andrew wrote:http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/590706/Madeleine-McCann-mum-dismisses-claim-wandered-away-Portugal-Kate-This-Morning

From the above article:

Kate said the three-year-old would have had to have opened a patio door and two gates, one with a child safety lock.

Then the youngster would have had to have closed them all behind her.

A determined three, almost four, year old is quite capable of opening patio doors and most child-proof locks.

ITV This Morning 21/02/17 - Page 7 4626344-199x300

ITV This Morning 21/02/17 - Page 7 4626344-199x300

What if, in her drowsy state, Madeleine climbed over that safety gate and fell?

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